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Do I apologise to my mum and brother? A Christian perspective please……

36 replies

LogInMyEye · 24/01/2024 17:28

Sorry, I don’t suppose this is the place for a complicated family saga, so no worries if no one has the stamina for it. I am trying to be good and also to take responsibility for my own faults and bad behaviour.
Context: my mother is emotionally abusive to my father. My theory is that she is on the autism spectrum, and that her masking and extreme defensiveness, combined with her significant emotional difficulties born of great sadness and loss in childhood has resulted in a level of personality disorder and some narcissistic traits. She is capable of being kind, and often is, but it is often performative. She has a bit of a saviour complex. As she gets older she is increasingly aggressive and difficult, mostly angry and falls out with most people. She gaslights and bullies my dad.
My brother (DB1) 50yo was always a lovely laid back guy. He was also a big pot smoker in his youth. Apx 18 years ago he started to talk about conspiracy theories (chem trails, a few Jewish families ruling the world, he’s been boycotting Israeli products for years, literally any news event he will have an alternative take). I tend to avoid talking to him about politics, although in recent years we have had a few overlapping agreements (we both object to wokeness) but I have always had to cut off the conversations as he always veers in to conspiracy theory.
A few weeks ago he called me and for 20 minutes bullied and barracked me about my views on the Middle East situation. (He does not believe Israel has a right to exist, he believes “they” (!) exaggerated the Holocaust to use as leverage in negotiations to secure Israel. Lots more, but you get the picture.) I told him I did not want to talk about politics with him. When the conversation ended I messaged him to say I was saddened he had attacked me like this and reminded him of an event which was due to cause a lot of sadness to me and my family. He responded that he didn’t really know what I was talking about and he didn’t know why I was annoyed. IMO gaslighting me. I let it go and we had a couple of productive conversations wrt Christmas arrangements. We were hosting Christmas for 12-14 people at our home.
On Christmas Eve morning I was shopping and preparing for a gathering that evening. DB1 phoned me to check that I did not have a Star of David on top of my Christmas tree. For context, a few years ago I had a silly comedy political tree topper, but I have no idea why it suddenly occurred to him that I may have a Star of David tree topper; he said that he had been worried about it the previous night and this had kept him awake! My response was not what it should have been. I refused to tell him whether I did have a s.o.d. Tree topper, but told him that I certainly would not be speaking to him about politics over Christmas on the basis that I thought his politics were absolutely deranged; I never want to talk with him about politics again. His views are mad etc. I was furious and lost my temper. I probably said more. I don’t think I did, but I may have said he’s antisemitic.
He arrived with his family the following day. 25 minutes late for Christmas dinner (16:25, so not exactly early in the day). He hardly said a word to me for the two days he was here. His oldest (13yo) questioned dh and I separately about our tree topper; (a fairy which had fallen off in protest, as it happens). He and his family, whom I love, ate our food, slept in our beds, and afaik enjoyed our hospitality. He has not texted or written to thank me, he has not communicated at all despite my dc sending thank-you cards to them, plus his dd’s birthday present.

Mother arrived on Christmas Eve. She’s extremely difficult company, but we manage. Christmas Day evening she started telling (loudly in front of 4 or 5 grandchildren) DB2 that he was overweight. He must be drinking too much, eating too much, looks fat. I asked her to stop and it escalated; I told her that I was not prepared to allow her to be that rude in my house. (I was probably deflecting, and actually wanted to tell DB1 that if he was not prepared to accept whatever I put on my own Christmas tree, then he was not welcome in the house!). Mother stormed off to bed, then stormed back to physically front me, then stormed off again and went home (100miles away!) first thing the following morning. (DB2 is divorced and was driving back to collect his DDs, so she got a lift with him.)
When DB1 got up he said he was also leaving. I assume his DC persuaded him to stay, as they did stay another night, as originally planned.
The thing is, I’ve spent a good couple of weeks nursing my wounds and couldn’t really work out why DB1 was not speaking to me; assumed it was my political position on Middle East which bothered him, which it definitely does, but I’ve realised that he is doubtless also upset that I was so rude to him about his political views. I think I have reached a point where I could apologise for this, and this alone, by text, without needing him to understand my position or apologise himself. I think I just need to clear my conscience. The relationship is altered, maybe it’s destroyed, but at least if I apologise for what I did wrong then that feels like the right thing to do. What do you think?
Wrt my mother. The relationship has been pretty much dead for a long time; I don’t feel sadness or loss about it anymore; I’ve done a lot of work coming to terms with this. I feel sad for her that her life is such a wreck, but also I am much more relaxed and content without her in my life. She has a history of taking tiny apologies and accepting them as being an admission that she is right about everything. I’m not even sure what I should apologise for; maybe telling her that I wasn’t prepared to accept her calling db2 ‘fat’ in my house. I was being disingenuous; db2 is capable of fighting his own battles, and I could just have left it and walked away; it’s no skin off my nose really. I would just rather leave things with my mother and hope that when there is such a time that we need to communicate, she will do so sensibly. Would a Christian perspective support essentially cutting off from my mother?

I have learned that it is not sensible to host my entire family again, especially at Christmas. I find the total silence from DB1 very hard to deal with and I feel like I should try to extend an olive branch, but also accept that nothing might change. It just feels sad.

Thanks to anyone that actually read this. It’s been quite therapeutic writing it all down. Sorry it’s so long.

OP posts:
heyhohello · 24/01/2024 17:37

I'm a Christian but have to say I really do not have all the answers in this case. It sounds very difficult.

What I'd do is sit on it a wile. Pray about it, read devotionals and attend church as normal and see if anything came to me. Be pleasant if they contact you...if they ask you about it all just say you find the conflict and arguments really uncomfortable and you don't know the best way to resolve it all but you love them all.

LogInMyEye · 24/01/2024 17:50

@heyhohello thank you so much for reading.
Yes, this is what I'll do. This is perfect advice.
I'm a newbie Christian, and I don't have the structures in place yet; praying, church etc. I'm trying.

It's extremely unlikely they will get in touch with me as they are stubborn and feel slighted, but this approach is very sensible. Thank you.

OP posts:
heyhohello · 24/01/2024 17:54

@LogInMyEye, 'The Unity Prayer' is a good prayer. Suitable for every situation 🙂:

My adorable Jesus,
May our feet journey together.
May our hands gather in unity.
May our hearts beat in unison.
May our souls be in harmony.
May our thoughts be as one.
May our ears listen to the silence together.
May our glances profoundly penetrate each other.
May our lips pray together to gain mercy from the Eternal Father.

Sageyboots · 24/01/2024 18:06

I think the first thing is to remember that nothing you say can change or persuade your family to change their thought processes or behaviours. They sound very entrenched. You can admit you find them difficult and take some space apart from them if needed, but still wish them well and pray for their good, pray for a softening of their hearts towards reconciliation.

In terms of yourself, I think it helps to repent to God any part in it where you feel you have been less than your best, have not trusted God or have tried to handle it all in your own strength. He longs for you to turn to him in faith, nothing is impossible with God.

Also it can help to lean in to your church family, especially if you are part of a supportive friendship or life group, I’m sure there will be mature Christians among them who have experience of difficult family dynamics.

Astridspuzzle · 24/01/2024 18:21

Thank you OP. I find this thread useful too. I've a similar family and I've passed the issue over to God.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 24/01/2024 18:33

Regardless of your brothers views, it’s best not to discuss them and best not to be offensive about them. He is entitled to his belief, just as you’re entitled to yours. Best agree to differ and treat each other respectfully and kindly. Personally I’d text him and apologise for being so rude to him, you love him deeply and worry you’ve hurt his feelings.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 24/01/2024 18:40

Underlaying everything is the need for you all to be much kinder and more respectful of each other. Best plan in advance your responses so they don’t escalate in to mud throwing. Maybe a positive direction when things go off base (please can we all be kinder to each other) or an observation (that comment seemed quite unkind)

heyhohello · 24/01/2024 18:44

"I hate fighting with you", is a good line. "I just want everybody to be happy" is another.

heyhohello · 24/01/2024 18:46

Regarding the news events/politics, you could tell them you find it all too upsetting and you'd rather talk about happier things.

LogInMyEye · 24/01/2024 20:10

@heyhohello thank you so much for the prayer.

Thank you @Sageyboots this is very much appreciated

@Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr it would be disingenuous for me to apologise in this way. I am trying to establish how I can apologise in an authentic and honest way for my wrongs without taking responsibility for his dreadful behaviour. I do agree that he is fully entitled to his views. They are none of my business, and I wish they had remained that way.
@Astridspuzzle sorry to hear you are having difficulties. I hope they are resolved.

OP posts:
Towerofsong · 24/01/2024 20:23

Speaking from a Jewish perspective, your DB1 IS deeply antisemitic. And is modelling that to his kids, unchallenged by the sounds of it. Calling him that is simply a fact. If he said the same things about another group would you or anyone else gloss over it and tell him he is entitled to his views?

I know this is not the advice you are looking for but I could not read and let this slide. People like your brother who propogate their distorted views to other people who then spread them online, are the reason Jews in the UK feel unsafe and antisemitism is up 1300%.

From a family perspective it's a difficult one, but as PPs have said you can distance yourself from your family in the knowledge that it is better for everyone, whilst loving them and wishing them well.

LogInMyEye · 24/01/2024 20:33

@Towerofsong I agree. It's so sad, and I'm so sorry.
However, I agree with what other posters have said about the way ahead being to avoid the subject with him altogether.

DH and I have been talking about it a LOT, and one of the things which was really grating was the fact that we were able to put his views to one side by choosing to host him at Christmas, but he is prepared to write me off because I was rude to him.
However, I wasn't really hosting him in a full and generous way, because when he pushed me I became angry and reacted badly.

It's complicated. I don't want to lose my DB, in spite of him having these awful views. It does compromise the relationship somewhat, and I can't imagine we will ever be back to normal. We can't turn back time.
I am thinking on it and will start to pray about it to help me find the right path.

OP posts:
LogInMyEye · 24/01/2024 20:38

For the record @Towerofsong in response to your comments about whether I would feel differently if it was another group.... no, I wouldn't, I have attended several marches, vigils and lectures since 7/10 opposing the appalling rise in antisemitism here and around the world. I'm horrified by antisemitism. I didn't realise it was such a problem until 7/10; I just thought it was a few cranks.

I hope this thread does not get derailed by this element of it, but I wanted to address your point.

OP posts:
heyhohello · 24/01/2024 20:39

@LogInMyEye, if you'd like me too I can pray for you too.

LogInMyEye · 24/01/2024 20:39

@heyhohello oh yes, please do. Thank you so much.

OP posts:
Towerofsong · 24/01/2024 20:41

LogInMyEye · 24/01/2024 20:38

For the record @Towerofsong in response to your comments about whether I would feel differently if it was another group.... no, I wouldn't, I have attended several marches, vigils and lectures since 7/10 opposing the appalling rise in antisemitism here and around the world. I'm horrified by antisemitism. I didn't realise it was such a problem until 7/10; I just thought it was a few cranks.

I hope this thread does not get derailed by this element of it, but I wanted to address your point.

Thank you, I do appreciate that and thank you for marching.

heyhohello · 24/01/2024 20:42

@LogInMyEye Will do. 🙂

LogInMyEye · 24/01/2024 20:43

@Towerofsong I'm so sorry it's happening. Sending love.

OP posts:
OhcantthInkofaname · 24/01/2024 20:47

You do not need to apologize for anything. You simply told your brother you wouldn't discuss his political views any longer. A very safe place to be now. As for your mother - you simply asked her to stop being rude to your other brother.

Thegreatestoftheseislove · 25/01/2024 19:54

A Christian perspective on apologising: Proverbs 15:1.

You are not responsible for the behaviour nor actions of others - the only person you have control over is yourself. If you know in your heart that anything you contributed to the 'discussions' was less than acceptable to God, then I would advise first of all repenting to Him in prayer. To your mother and your brother, if it were me, I'd get a little card and write a note to say that regarding the events of Christmas, after some reflection, you are wholeheartedly and sincerely sorry for your part in any upset. I would not go into detail, but keep it short and sweet. Do not expect the same back, and do not expect an acknowledgement and you will not be disappointed. So long as your heart and mind are at peace with the Lord, I would not be at all concerned if your expression of sorrow/regret is taken as some sort of 'victory' by the other parties. They have their own demons to deal with.

Going forward, my suggestion would be if either of them 'starts again' I would ask them to stop, then I would say something along the lines of 'I love you very much because you are my brother/mother, but you need to stop talking this way as it is not something I want to engage in/discuss/hear'. If they want to continue, then become a stuck record and repeat the statement.

Mustardseed86 · 26/01/2024 11:08

I don't agree that anyone has the 'right' to be antisemitic, and your brother seems to be down a very deep rabbit hole with this. It's disturbing and frightening the way antisemitism in particular seems to have a way of taking hold of people in this way, where it becomes an obsession devoid of all rationality. Of course you can't control someone else's views, and I understand you don't want to lose him, but how on earth do you navigate a relationship with someone who seems to have made this an integral part of his identity? Of course you can forgive, insofar as it's hurtful to you personally, but this is an issue that affects other people. I can only suggest you pray for him but also make it clear this is a red line for you that you won't tolerate. I don't think that is in any way unchristian because we should always defend those who are persecuted and call out moral evils. Should you really be thinking of apologising for this? If your own motivations were less than pure (and I guess we none of us have totally pure motivations) then take this to God in prayer and ask Him to give you peace in this matter.
With your mum, that sounds like a different issue, and it might be appropriate to apologise briefly for any part you have played in adding to the conflict. But it also sounds like you have healthy boundaries there, which isn't something to feel guilty about, and you weren't wrong to speak to her about her unkindness, although perhaps you did so in anger, which is the part you're struggling with.

I think the best advice here is to pray, and keep praying, for healing and reconciliation and for God to give you peace in this. Let go of any bitterness and ego wounds, but don't think being Christian means 'going along to get along', because sometimes the right thing to do is the opposite of that. It's hard to do, and you won't do it perfectly, but if you keep calling to the Lord, He can do what you can't.

Cantalever · 26/01/2024 21:55

I hear your dilemma OP about what to say to whom. For what its worth, I would follow your instinct to apologise to your DB1 - not for disagreeing with his views, but as you yourself made the distinction, for the way you blew up and spoke angrily to him. The idea upthread of saying that you hate it when you argue is brilliant, and should be a kind of balm to his hurt feelings. But make it clear, kindly, that you don't want to discuss political issues with him, just that you are sorry for your outburst. That is honest and authentic, and imo a Christian approach. Be kind, but you don't need to agree. It is unfortunate that he does not have a better way to resolve a dispute than to go silent, but there is little you can do - its up to him to address his behaviour.
With your DM it is different. You don't owe her an apology for stating rightly that she was being unkind and inappropriate to DB2. She too, is responsible for her own reactions. I think you have a very clearly worked out view of this scenario OP. Good on you.
You have stood your ground but are willing to accommodate someone else by apologising where you could have done better yourself on one occasion.

pickledandpuzzled · 26/01/2024 22:05

You have nothing to apologise for, and should not do so.

However you can in good conscience write a note to whoever saying you miss them and are sad about the argument.

Bear in mind you can’t change them.
You can pray for patience, discernment and grace.

They are past the point of being able to reciprocate a respectful and honest relationship. You really aren’t likely to get beyond a superficial staying in touch, socialising as families and checking in with each other, while not having deep meaningful conversations.

His wife and kids may need your support, too.

And don’t have your mum and DB2 over at the same time. Poor guy.

Mustardseed86 · 26/01/2024 22:41

It's not just discussing political issues though, is it @Cantalever ? There's a difference between disagreeing on some controversial subject and a person being a raging antisemite. It seems to me you're putting hurt feelings (if that, he seems more angry that she won't agree) above telling the truth. There are plenty of things I would think are best not discussed within my family because things can get heated (I just had a ridiculous conversation with my dad about the death penalty which I could have done without) but this man is a full-on Holocaust denier. At least maybe the OP has given him a push towards some self-reflection.

Cantalever · 27/01/2024 11:33

Mustardseed86
That's a good point. By "political" I was including every controversial subject and conspiracy theory that OP and her brother might disagree on over a family Christmas in her home, and want to avoid to prevent arguments there and then. But in general, yes I totally agree, anti-semitism and all forms of racism should be called out loud and clear at the time. I have done so with more distant relatives in the past, who supported apartheid in South Africa, and lost the relationship. With OP's brother it seemed better to avoid his extreme delusions initially, at Christmas, and hope he can see sense going forward. OP may be able to suggest better sources of information for him if communication remains open.

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