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Original poster

New friend giving dd a Bible as a SS present

64 replies

Chillyboots · 10/12/2023 08:58

We recently moved to a new area and my eldest dd is in year 9. She started this new school in October and made some new friends.
She says her friends parents are very strict and I don't think they are allowed social media. She had to buy her a Secret Santa present and was really unsure what to buy. She ended up with getting her some chocolate and some lip balm but she didn't even know if she'd be allowed the lip balm!
DD has said her friend is going to get her a Bible which seems a bit odd to me.

I have asked dd if she'd like to invite her friend around but dd said she'd rather not ask her.

I grew up in a very strict Evangelical/Pentecostal household. My dad wouldn't let my mum wear make up and we were all made to go to church on Sunday. All skirts had to be below knee and we didn't even have a TV. Books with swear words in (including school books) were burnt on our Rayburn so I do know about this way of life.
At university, I joined a couple of Pentcostal churches and didn't have a great experience tbh. I got very depressed and confused with it all and at the same time I was studying Theology.
I left the church and I don't attend one now although I have been to some really nice churches in between.

I'm not against her being friends with Christians at all but I am worried that she gets sucked into some kind of cult. I am waiting to see what kind of 'Bible' she brings back.

I also work in secondary school and just can't imagine any of my students giving out Bibles as SS presents.

Am i reading too much into this?

OP posts:
Original poster
Chillyboots · 10/12/2023 10:14

Mollyfolk, I've recently done the Prevent training again which has probably made me more aware as well.
I wouldn't say DD is vulnerable but she can be influenced by others more so than her sister.

OP posts:
ANightingale · 10/12/2023 10:20

Rocksonabeach · 10/12/2023 09:13

I’d contact the parents on the wats app and ask what they are doing for the ss and point out it must be neutral, and not offensive sending any religious things is a no.

Offensive to give a Bible at Christmas - a festival celebrating the birth of Christ? That makes no sense at all, and I say that as an agnostic.

WashItTomorrow · 10/12/2023 10:26

While I think it’s an odd gift, it’s certainly not offensive, and in many ways it’s fitting. It’s probably the only sort of gift the girl’s parents will allow her to give. I wouldn’t overthink it.

WandaWonder · 10/12/2023 10:29

Rocksonabeach · 10/12/2023 09:13

I’d contact the parents on the wats app and ask what they are doing for the ss and point out it must be neutral, and not offensive sending any religious things is a no.

Yeah sending a book about Christmas for an event connected to a religious event called Christmas is so out of left field it needs a good telling off

StBrides · 10/12/2023 10:30

I think the fact that your daughter doesn't want to invite this friend round means you don't need to worry - she's keeping her distance. Be gracious with the present and leave it at that, I don't think now is the time to worry.

You're alert to indications of evangelism so I would only worry if the girls parents look to actively indoctrinate your daughter.

WashItTomorrow · 10/12/2023 10:30

Rocksonabeach · 10/12/2023 09:13

I’d contact the parents on the wats app and ask what they are doing for the ss and point out it must be neutral, and not offensive sending any religious things is a no.

No one contacts parents on WhatsApp! It’s secondary school.

And no, the present doesn’t have to be neutral. A Bible is hardly offensive. It’s a religious festival.

PaperDoIIs · 10/12/2023 10:32

Chillyboots · 10/12/2023 10:14

Mollyfolk, I've recently done the Prevent training again which has probably made me more aware as well.
I wouldn't say DD is vulnerable but she can be influenced by others more so than her sister.

I would only be concerned if your DD was in the minority, so would have to adapt to fit in. Or if she had any risk factors where turning to religion (even one so very restrictive) would give her some meaning/a reason/understanding/a community. However, it doesn't sound that's the case.

In fact, struggling so much to find an appropriate gift and still something so inoffensive and sometimes needed item like a lip balm causes worry, would just drive home how difficult it would be to live like this. I'd see this small,limited exposure as a protective factor because it's so against everything she is used to. Most teens wish/want more freedom ,not less.

Flora56 · 10/12/2023 10:33

I've recently done the Prevent training again which has probably made me more aware as well.

I’m not sure I’m following. Why would your child receiving a Bible be a cause for concern? It’s a really weird Christmas present for a teenager, even a Christian teenager, but I’m not sure why you’re worried.

A Christian gifting a book, containing a story that they consider to be the real meaning of Christmas, isn’t the same as inviting them to be part of a cult.

Mariposista · 10/12/2023 10:34

PostmansKnock · 10/12/2023 09:08

Madness.

My dd had a friend who was a JW. She wasn't allowed to do anything. My dd gave her a gel pen for her birthday, obviously they don't do birthdays and the friend asked my dd to keep it in her blazer pocket as she wasn't allowed it. Dd handed it over every day.

When they were supposed to do a piece of work together for their GCSES I said they could all meet at mine as I have a big table and she wasn't allowed to do that. I offered to meet the parents beforehand and I even offered my DBS to no avail.

My dd said 'it's like they don't want her to pass' and I thought no, I imagine they don't.

@PostmansKnock I hope that poor girl is now out of that community and is now living a normal life as an adult. God knows what she was subjected to there…

WashItTomorrow · 10/12/2023 11:07

Mariposista · 10/12/2023 10:34

@PostmansKnock I hope that poor girl is now out of that community and is now living a normal life as an adult. God knows what she was subjected to there…

Show quote history

What’s that meant to mean?

Jellycats4life · 10/12/2023 11:14

My daughter is in Year 7 and if someone gave her a Bible as a secret Santa present she’d chuck it straight in the bin!

I can see why your upbringing makes you worry that your daughter might be susceptible to religious brainwashing, but I agree with a PP who says that this girl is probably only allowed to participate if she hands over a Bible. That is VERY plausible.

I went to school with a JW too. She was so nice and really smart, but spent her entire childhood so controlled. After leaving school she wasn’t allowed to do A Levels at the academic sixth form that was a bus ride away, she did some sort of lowly business course at the crappier local college. Lost touch with her after that. I’d love to know what happened to her, whether she ever left. Somehow I doubt it.

Mariposista · 10/12/2023 11:28

WashItTomorrow · 10/12/2023 11:07

What’s that meant to mean?

Show quote history

It really shouldn't need spelling out.

I hope that she is now living her life as she chooses and is not having to resort to a friend hiding a 99p pen for her. I hope she has the freedom to choose her own husband or have a boyfriend if she wants to, or remain single, or even be a lesbian if that is who she is. I hope she can choose whether or not to have sex. I hope she is not interrogated for every choice she makes. I hope she has the right to further education. I hope she can choose what time she comes home at night. I hope she can choose whether or not she drinks alcohol. I hope she can choose what clothes she wants to wear. I hope she has a lovely group of friends that SHE has chosen.

Is that good enough for you?

WashItTomorrow · 10/12/2023 11:33

Mariposista · 10/12/2023 11:28

It really shouldn't need spelling out.

I hope that she is now living her life as she chooses and is not having to resort to a friend hiding a 99p pen for her. I hope she has the freedom to choose her own husband or have a boyfriend if she wants to, or remain single, or even be a lesbian if that is who she is. I hope she can choose whether or not to have sex. I hope she is not interrogated for every choice she makes. I hope she has the right to further education. I hope she can choose what time she comes home at night. I hope she can choose whether or not she drinks alcohol. I hope she can choose what clothes she wants to wear. I hope she has a lovely group of friends that SHE has chosen.

Is that good enough for you?

Show quote history

This is the philosophy/religion board. All religions have rules of behaviour. JW is one, like many others.

mollyfolk · 10/12/2023 12:42

Flora56 · 10/12/2023 10:33

I've recently done the Prevent training again which has probably made me more aware as well.

I’m not sure I’m following. Why would your child receiving a Bible be a cause for concern? It’s a really weird Christmas present for a teenager, even a Christian teenager, but I’m not sure why you’re worried.

A Christian gifting a book, containing a story that they consider to be the real meaning of Christmas, isn’t the same as inviting them to be part of a cult.

I don’t think it’s offensive it’s just inappropriate particularly as we are talking about minors here.

It’s inappropriate to give people religious symbols unless you know they are the same religion as you! Surely people know that.

it could be that they are saying - we think our religion is the only right one and everyone should be in it. That’s an extremist point of view.

WashItTomorrow · 10/12/2023 12:49

mollyfolk · 10/12/2023 12:42

I don’t think it’s offensive it’s just inappropriate particularly as we are talking about minors here.

It’s inappropriate to give people religious symbols unless you know they are the same religion as you! Surely people know that.

it could be that they are saying - we think our religion is the only right one and everyone should be in it. That’s an extremist point of view.

Edited
Show quote history

How on earth is it inappropriate? It’s surely extremely appropriate. A Christian book for a Christian festival. If you don’t think it’s OK, then you should opt out of everything Christmas altogether.

Jellycats4life · 10/12/2023 12:50

WashItTomorrow · 10/12/2023 11:33

This is the philosophy/religion board. All religions have rules of behaviour. JW is one, like many others.

Show quote history

Indeed, although many would say JW is a cult.

But it’s still OK to criticise a religion that oppresses and subjugates its followers (especially women and children) to such extremes, isn’t it?

Rocksonabeach · 10/12/2023 13:01

Pushmepullyou · 10/12/2023 09:18

Well, it’s a crappy present and a bit weird, but is a Christmas bible really offensive? I’m an atheist myself but it is fundamentally a Christian festival

Yes it is - it’s imposing your religious views on someone else and I’m a Christian. Just no.

JaninaDuszejko · 10/12/2023 13:30

It’s inappropriate to give people religious symbols unless you know they are the same religion as you! Surely people know that.

My experience is that the Christians (of several denominations) I know are constantly pushing their religion. Never had the same thing from people of other religions. My Catholic MIL is particularly bad, the kids constantly get religious books from her despite her knowing we are raising them without a religion. That was bad enough but we ignored it and quickly disposed of the books. However, when they go to visit her she wants them to go to church and take communion. I had to put my foot down about that.

Original poster
Chillyboots · 10/12/2023 14:37

JaninaDuszejko · 10/12/2023 13:30

It’s inappropriate to give people religious symbols unless you know they are the same religion as you! Surely people know that.

My experience is that the Christians (of several denominations) I know are constantly pushing their religion. Never had the same thing from people of other religions. My Catholic MIL is particularly bad, the kids constantly get religious books from her despite her knowing we are raising them without a religion. That was bad enough but we ignored it and quickly disposed of the books. However, when they go to visit her she wants them to go to church and take communion. I had to put my foot down about that.

This.

And any other opinion is wrong!

My take is that we can learn a lot from all religions. It helps us to tolerate other's opinions and open our minds. There is good and bad in each one. There are many Christians who will not allow their children to have friends who are not Christian. I was always seen as someone to watch as I also went out, drank a bit and partied. In fact, I was prayed for several times so I could have my demons cast out!
I have watched pastors take money from very poor people, manipulate people, tell people to stop taking meds and tell many they are possessed. These things are incredibly tough to deal with as a child. There is physical and mental abuse in many churches and that is the problem. Many will prey on young people, the sick and the poor. They will twist scriptures to suit their own agenda and they will humiliate you if you choose to disagree.

There are undoubtedly some great churches which do not exploit people and genuinely care about people. Sadly, these are becoming few and far between.

OP posts:
Original poster
Chillyboots · 10/12/2023 14:40

....and I can say that I hit rock bottom when I was a member of a certain church. I experienced a lot of mental health issues especially during my time there as a young adult.

OP posts:
Almondmum · 10/12/2023 14:45

I think you should consider the very real possibility that your daughter's friend who told her she would be receiving a bible is joking around?! She knows her family is religious presumably and could well be taking the piss

So I would stop getting yourself all stressed about something that might not even happen. You'll feel a bit daft giving it this much thought if she ends up with a bath bomb and a chocolate Santa or something.

Original poster
Chillyboots · 10/12/2023 15:16

Why will I feel daft?

I've not discussed it with anyone in RL. It's a thread on a forum of anonymous people.

OP posts:
PaperDoIIs · 10/12/2023 15:22

Chillyboots · 10/12/2023 14:40

....and I can say that I hit rock bottom when I was a member of a certain church. I experienced a lot of mental health issues especially during my time there as a young adult.

The thing is, you should be worried for DD's friend who is actually living it, not your daughter who might tangentially be exposed through this girl/a Bible.

Almondmum · 10/12/2023 15:25

Cos you'll have worried for nothing? About a bible that never existed?

Ilovelurchers · 10/12/2023 15:36

OP, I can see this is a sensitive area for you and I am sorry you have had such negative and difficult experiences around religion in the past.

I really do think you are worrying unduly here. Your daughter is easily at an age where she is capable of understanding that different people believe different things, and just because she is given a Bible, she is not plausibly going to read it and immediately accept everything in it as absolute truth.

I don't think there is anything inappropriate in people giving gifts related to their faith. I have a Pagan friend who has give me jewellery and crystals which, according to her, had significance in her faith - I was interested and grateful and did not find it offensive. I wasn't converted to paganism by it.

As others have pointed out, Christmas IS a Christian festival originally, so in a sense it's quite an apt gift! Tho a strange one to be exchanged between teenagers as part of SS, admittedly.

My final thought may be more controversial on here - on the off chance your daughter DOES develop an interest in Christianity, or indeed any other faith, at some point - are you going to try to prevent that? Do you believe you have that right?

My own daughter is similar in age to yours, and currently an atheist. If she became interested in a religion, even started believing one, then providing it was not leading her to say or do anything cruel or damaging to others or herself, then I would feel it important to support her in that, even if I did find it hard to understand. Not if she joined a scary cult, obviously. But if she started going to church or temple or meeting or what have you ......