Any other atheists or humanists out there? Baptism dilemma.

[ElvinaFrizzell]

We've been invited to DH's niece's baptism on Easter Sunday. My first reaction was "Well that will be a polite refusal then" before DH surprised me by saying he would quite like to go. DH's argument is that DN is choosing this for herself as she is 13 not a baby and he feels we should be there to support her. I can see his point but I also can't bear hypocrisy.

Ten years ago, I would have described myself as an agnostic when I went to my nephew's christening although I declined being a godparent because I didn't think it was appropriate. Three years after that, I didn't go to my niece's christening. My sister understood why and had no problem with me only showing my face at the party afterwards. I went to the party because it was a rare chance to meet up with some more distant relatives. This time there will be a family meal after the baptism but I don't think I can just turn up to that.

I was brought up in an evangelical Christian family. My parents and sister still go to church every week so to them a christening is an important Christian event rather than a case of getting the baby "done". As an atheist, I just feel I have no place being present at such an event. I have been to church weddings and funerals (not such a problem as they are not purely religious ceremonies iyswim) more recently but I do feel uncomfortable in church buildings. I let my mum take DS to church sometimes as I want him to feel that he really does have a choice when he's older. My father still insists that I had the choice and religion wasn't forced on me. However, I fail to understand how a child can truly choose when it is normal for them to go to church twice every Sunday and their family's whole life revolves around church activities. As you can see, I still have huge ishoos around this area

I think I have decided to go. I can tell myself I am ensuring that DS doesn't miss out on the family get-together afterwards. It's too long a story but no-one from DH's family came to DS's first birthday party last year. I really don't want to start any other problems with the in-laws.

I would be interested in hearing views from anyone who has been in a similar situation though. I am fairly new to posting on MN (first time on this board I think) after lurking for ages so please, be gentle with me.

I am humanist but am happy to attend other people's religious ceremonies if they invite me. It's important for them. It doesn't need to be for you. I think you can be athiest/humanist and still respect other people's choices.
View it as a family event and an opportunity for you DS to see his extended family.

I think if your dh knows how strongly you feel then he will appreciate you going, especially if you manage to do it "graciously" and not with a face on. Have been to religious ceremonies other than Christian (which I am) and it's still nice to be with people sharing a commitment like that.

Just to let you know, there are bits of a regular C of E baptism service you may be able to join in. For example, if you have to recite as a congregation "We renounce evil". You don't have to say anything that you feel is hypocritical at all.

True, Just keep quiet for the singing and prayers....and try not to tut and sigh. Alternatively, would DH be ok with you going for a quick coffee and meeting them after the ceremony?

I would go, definitely. You shouldn't feel that you are being hypocrital, and you probably won't be the only atheist there. Apart from all the renouncing of devils and such like - which I can understand will be uncomfortable - this is fundamentally a ceremony for the family to welcome a new child into the world. I would try to focus on that. To do otherwise would be to let your ex-religion cast a shadow over your family life, which is surely the opposite of what you want.

If it's a traditional CE service I think the only bit you would find absolutely impossible is "I turn to Christ". The rest is much more vague. Iorek, I don't think they talk about devils. Well not in my experience, maybe I haven't been to the raciest baptisms.

Well, perhaps not devils plural (must have been getting mixed up with that Ken Russell film). But they certainly say "do you renounce the devil and all his work" or something like that. Might just be the Catholic ones though.

I think that you should not feel obliged to say all the words as a member of the congregation, but that it would be good to be there.

Infant baptism was one of the precipitants for my departure from the Church and final acknowledgement of my atheism. I hated going to christenings more and more and had to examine why.

I grew up in a Christian (missionary) family like you and it was a long hard struggle to separate what I really believed from the 'furniture of my mind'.

But when my dd was born I wanted a ceremony to welcome her, celebrate her arrival and make public promises to her about how we would bring her up. I also wanted to nominate a special advocate for her. So we had a home-made ceremony.

All our Christian friends came and celebrated with us along with the atheists and agnostics and no-one (apart from MIL of course) so much as questioned the choice we had made.

So I hope if I'm invited to another christening I'll be able to go and treat it in the same spirit.

Sorry, haven't read rest of thread so don't know if you've decided yet

Actually, I have read the rest of the thread. Thought there were 648 other posts, but that must have been another thread.

Time I was in bed

I didn't expect so many replies already. Thanks all of you. I'm off to bed now but will reply properly in the morning.

I'm an atheist too, but would probably attend a christening under these circs. WOuld it help to tell yourself that 13-year-olds have all sorts of ridiculous fads and she will probably look back on Christianity with the same rueful amusement as she thinks of her crush on mr Getawash out of The Emo band in about 5 years time? Or think of it as going to watch some loved child's excruciating school play, because that's all it is, really. You don't need to join in with any of the words or bow your head, just don't smoke, snigger or fart too much during the service.

And I do appreciate that you have issues with superstition, and don't blame you, so it is with a spirit of mischief that I offer the following: nothing winds the aggressively superstitious up more than amused, tolerant, very gentle disdain. They can't call you on it but the fact that they know you know it's all a load of crap drives them insane

Madamez gentle disdain will never penetrate the settled complacency of some believers..I struggle with doubt myself and find the complacency of others sometimes difficult to "manage".

But if you do walk around looking disdainful at a baptism I think it would be a bit rude. I wouldn't walk round a mosque or synagogue or Quaker house disdainfully. At risk of sounding terminally drippy I would say it's nice to be nice, but that doesn't really suit the OP because she has historical reasons for feeling unsettled by it.

Well, I am really not at all sure about my own religious persuasion, or lack thereof. But I have in my time attended weddings and christenings in most of the faiths that do that kind of thing.

I don't think that you are being hypocritical in the slightest if you attend. You're there to support your family. Zone out during the ceremonial bits, and rest assured that half the so called Christians will have their minds firmly fixed on what they are getting for lunch most of the time.

I am not an atheist/humanist but am married to one. Of course he was in attendance at ds1's baptism! And will be at ds2's. He just didn't join in with any of it (if he had I wouldn't have approved anyway, as it would have been wrong for him to say stuff he doesn't believe). He held ds1, smiled and poured champagne afterwards Not going seems to me to be a little humanistzilla-ish (sorry ) - it makes it too much about you somehow. You yourself aren't committing to anything - you are just present at a family occasion. I also think your attendance will send a powerful message to your dn that her decisions are taken seriously (what one thinks of them in private can in this case be kept out of it).

Berolina: I kind of agree. There are some religious ceremonies I would absolutely not attend (ie the ones that involve cutting bits off the DC) because I thoroughly disapprove, but as with weddings, funerals etc, I don't mind naming ceremonies whatever the religion: one is invited to support and wish one's friend or relative well and there's no need to actually participate.