I (still) dont have faith

[iMum]

I would like to know how others feel about their choice of belief system or faith free lives.
I know next to nothing about some religons and a bit more about others.
I just feel for me that it would be ridiculous to believe in a god, and to hold him in high aclaim for the creation of everything.
That said it is with the greatest respect that i appreciate others do have a strong belief system.
For me there can be no god, Im a believer in science. (not that i know a great deal about that btw)
But to be able to have faith, trust in the unseen and live a life by rules/structure/etc this must take a well-huge leap of faith!
Not something i can entertain, give me fact-failing that give me wine and then I'll give you fact.

Your thoughts?

no takers?

Well, yes, it takes faith to have a faith Not sure what to say, really. It's all about what you're convinced by, really, and that can change and grow over time.

fwiw, the core of my faith I hold to because I was convinced by certain facts.

Regarding living "a life by rules/structure/etc", everyone does this religious or not. The difference is only in where these rules come from.

I don't buy the idea that science has displaced religion. (I do think that TV may have done this to some extent though, but this is a discussion for another time.)

Yes I understand about rules from all over but choosing to live by rules from religion-because of no other reason than you believe. Hats off to you if you do-I just havent got it in me i dont think.

I think that, for most people, following a religion does not mean that all moral decisions are mapped out for you, rather that there is a culture and a body of work (eg bible or qu'ran together with subsequent interpretive texts) to which you can refer when making such decisions. In the same way that another person might refer to western philosophers. Or their mum.

SO it could be reasonable to say that whilst i dont have faith or follow any "god" i do practise the religion of my mum.
(which I do)
OOOhhh shell love that!

Yes!

i was just wondering, you say you believe in science. there have been quite a few interesting shows on the physics of sub-atomic particles. Last night there was one on Stephen Hawkin's search for a unifying theory which would bring together the science of huge things ie galaxies and black holes with the science of sub-atomic particles - very interesting.

if you scaled up the nucleus of an atom to the size of a full stop, the electron particle (which circles the nucleus) would be two miles away. basically although atoms are supposed to be the building blocks from which all life is made, they are basically empty space. If you sucked all this empty space out of every single object in the universe, the 'stuff' which would be left would just about fill a thimble.

so that's proven scientific fact, about as unbelievable and mind-blowing as you can get. for me, once i can bring myself to believe that this is true, the idea of God suddenly doesn't seem quite so impossible. hope that makes some sense!

Faith is a 'gift' given by God. It is not something that you can drum up by yourself. The fact that you are 'seeking' means that something is stirring in your soul.

The God I believe in the God of the Bible and the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob and who's son Is Jesus Christ. If you think that you are really seeking him then just ask him outright to reveal himself to you, and get ready for the ride. But it must be the God of the Bible you seek, as there are other spirits out there that would seek to decieve you.

Silly question, but have you tried asking for it? And if you get it, do you really want it? Would you be willing to let it change your life?

It's peculiar to me that we set so much store in science when there is so much science can't yet answer. Even the scientists are arguing about particular types of evidence and so much is based on statistics when statistics can be looked at from so many different angles. I don't have any answers but from what I know of my life of 42 years I know it works best when God is part of it. The rub is that believing in God relies on faith so it will never be proven. It's great that you are asking the question. As for the rules I think it's about loving your neighbour, yourself and above all God. It's not easy and most of the time I'm completely confused but it's a mystery and I am learning to accept it. When I do amazing things happen.....

I went to a christening on Sunday and oart of the service said something along the lines of .........receive god love even tho we dont deserve it and something else to do with all of us being sinners. How can this be, haw can we say that god loves everyone etc etc and in the same breath refer to us in his name as sinners and not worthy? Why cant we all be given the benefit of the doubt, and surely a baby cant be a sinner? It is most likely that I dont understand the meaning of the text, i get that but the fact that it is written like that bothers me.

iMum I don't think science and God are necessarily incompatible. I've met a number of eminent scientists through DH's work and have had the science/religion conversation with quite a few. I've been struck by how many are either religious or say that science tells them nothing about the existence of God so they remain agnostic (well apart from Dawkins obviously!)

There's a quotation in Jeanette Winterson's 'Art and Lies' that I really like:

"It's a truism that as faith in God has declined belief in science, especially medical science, has increased. Yet most people know even less about science than they did about God. Science is now incomprehensible to the layman but the layman accepts it, even though one of the arguments against God is that He doesn't make sense."

I think that many people use faith in 'science' as a way of avoiding thinking about faith in religion even though they don't necessarily understand the science itself or why it might be incompatible with religion. I don't mean to accuse you of that,it's obvious from your post that you are thinking carefully about it.

IMum, for me its something along the lines of that God still loves us even when we are "being naughty", in the same was a mother still loves her child who has just scribbled over the walls in black permanent marker .

A large part of this "not being worthy", I believe, comes from within ourselves, and not necessarily God himself. Think about how much we beat ourselves up sometimes over something we have said or done? And as for babies being sinners, no I don't believe they are, just that they are born into a sinful world, like the rest of us.

Ginji - am totally in agreement with you on "the rules".

As for science, I like to think of myself as Christian AND scientist. I believe the Creation stories are an explanation for a period of history when people had no other explanation. I'm not entirely sure evolution is the answer too, because I think that is an explanation too, even though you could say there is more of factual evidence for it - I don't think its the entire answer (paradigm shifts for instance). I do believe God is responsible for the creation of the world, but I don't know exactly how he did it.