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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Can any Christians help me with St Francis/possessions/passions

9 replies

Atikka · 05/07/2023 21:58

Why have we all not ended up like St Francis, God asks us to put him first and give up everything else...
Sorry I'm tired so haven't got the energy to phrase this better/ explain but really want to get the ball rolling on obtaining views!

OP posts:
ohmeoh · 06/07/2023 19:39

Because we are all individuals? Different strengths and weaknesses, different callings.

St Francis' achievements and sacrifices would seem frighteningly radical for some. Say, a mother just given birth? Would she leave her newborn child or subject them to such hardship? What about someone who was severely ill and extremely vulnerable? However that doesn't mean there aren't things we can't all sacrifice individually to do good in this world. The widow in the Bible account didn't give much in monetary terms compared to the rich people but it was a greater sacrifice relatively.

Fluffycloudsblusky · 06/07/2023 19:42

If a mother lives her daily life with all its struggles, achievements, disappointmenta and joys with love in her heart for God and her children she can become a Saint just as St Francis did.
We are all called to different walks of life.
Putting God first looks different for each of us.

Catinabeanbag · 06/07/2023 21:13

St Francis lived a pretty idle and well off life before he became a monk. His father was rich and Francis swanned about until he was about 25 or so. I think there's hope for all of us in that!!
We're not all called to that sort of lifestyle either - very few of us today become monks or nuns, but perhaps make sacrifices in different, less obvious ways, which are just as costly in their way.
I think it's about intention as well, and if that's right, God will honour it.

johnm75 · 08/07/2023 10:19

As a psychologist and ex-spiritual seeker myself, and more significantly as an experienced life coach for almost 20 years now, I have witnessed how contemplating life in terms of God can turn into one of the most damaging thought patterns an individual can engage in.

I have sadly seen countless times now the damage that this pattern does to a person’s psyche, to a person's ability to genuinely overcome the problems and limitations in their life, and ultimately to their entire existence, as the pattern unwittingly grows and consumes them over time.

Now when confronted with people displaying this pattern, I strongly urge them to start detaching from these kind of thoughts, and to stop framing life in terms of “God” and “God’s will”, and whether they can have some sort of relationship with him or not, etc. The only thing that they should be cultivating faith in is their ability and commitment to never stop looking for the answer to whatever problem or limitation they are experiencing in their life, that has led them to turn to the notion of "God" in the first place.

Troubledwords · 13/07/2023 08:57

I think some people are able to do that, or live a minimalist lifestyle, but for many it's simply not practical to do that in these times. However I think most people probably could donate more items to charity, to have less excess, things we don't need.

Nippydippydoodahs · 13/07/2023 11:52

You're back are you? 👀 @johnm75
Mmmmmm.

Toddlerteaplease · 16/07/2023 14:59

I do t find Franciscan spirituality at all appealing. No idea why. Possibly because the poverty feels slightly artificial, when compared to people who are actually living in real poverty.

sleepstrategy · 20/07/2023 11:52

johnm75... not sure about your point.
This article in Frontiers Journal disproves what your saying "analyses showed individuals with an internal Locus Of Control were ... more likely to believe in a divine power" https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2020.01462/full
Ie those with belief in God take more responsibility for themselves.
Rotter 1966 defined individuals with an External LOC to be those who believe in luck, fate, chance or powerful others.

The Relationship Between Locus of Control and Religious Behavior and Beliefs in a Large Population of Parents: An Observational Study

The purpose of the present study was to examine, in a large representative population, the association between self-reported religious beliefs, attitudes and behavior and locus of control (LOC) of reinforcement as defined by Rotter. Results of previous...

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2020.01462/full

sleepstrategy · 20/07/2023 12:16

Attika, I think it's Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
Seems to me hard to reconcile seeking security (and if we're lucky a mortgage)with Franciscan simplicity, a single brown robe and 'lilies of the valley' approach.
Eventually I'd love to retire to a caravan like Sister Wendy Beckett ❤

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