Worship Songs/Sycophantic Nature

[SycophantsUnite]

I'm a relatively new 'Christian', in the sense that I have a faith in something, I'm exploring what that something looks like, but I've started to attend two different churches to explore my faith and engage further in what it means to me.

I'm having a hard times with the hymns/worship songs!

In the C of E Church I attend, they're hymns and they're generally quite traditional, and I would describe them as being mostly God/Holy Spirit focused.

In the Baptist Church I attend, songs are much more pop like and whilst there are some I really like and listen to outside of church, I'm really put off by how sycophantic some of the songs feel. There seems to be a heavy Jesus focus rather than God more generally. I find all the 'I will love you Lord!' with hands flung high in the air really overwhelming. Last week a lady threw herself on the floor and wailed 'thank you Jesus!' over and over again through all the songs, almost egged on by others around her?

I don't entirely know what I believe, but I do believe that any love a God has for me would be unconditional and not dependant on me declaring passionately my love over and over. I value the songs that feel like prayers to music - e.g. 'I won't be overwhelmed, you're where my help comes from, give me vision, to see things like you do'.

Am I just attending the wrong church for me? I generally much prefer the Baptist church but I'm wondering if I align better with C of E.

I also notice a big difference in the style of prayers. C of E: give us strength to get us through xyz. Baptist: God has told me during that song that someone's knee hurts and you need to ask for prayer for him to fix it. It hurts as someone with multiple loses to feel that God isn't giving that person a message about me, and all the things that have hurt me are because I haven't sought prayer.

In my experience baptists are very full on. I would define myself as a Christian and I think Jesus was/is ace, but I do struggle with the worship side of things too so I completely understand where you are coming from. I love singing and I do like a old school hymn, but does Jesus really want us flinging ourselves about telling him how much we love him?

Baptist churches I have experienced are very much about salvation and escaping hell, it seems they are much more concerned about how being a follower of Christ affects your death rather than your life, and it feels to me like their worship and singing reflects this - after all if you believe that people who aren't Jesusy enough are going to burn for eternity then I guess you need to make a BIG point about how Jesusy you are to avoid the fire and damnation right?

So I think it boils down to your theology. I believe in God as a higher power and I believe that Jesus existed and came to show us a better way to live. I think the Bible has some good pointers for a good life and I think God listens when we pray. But I don't believe in Hell (or at least, I don't believe people end up there!) And I don't believe Jesus had to die to save us from the wrath of his angry Dad.

I think if you aren't feeling the charismatic evangelical vibe then Baptists probably aren't for you.

I grew up in the charismatic Baptist church, and am very familiar with the worship song vibe. Many of the songs I remember singing as a kid are straight out of the psalms (though I didn't know that at the time!) and a lot of the more modern ones are the same.
I now attend a CofE church (hymns all the way!) and I think the 'theology' in the hymns is definitely different from that of worship songs. I find the hymns are more 'external' - God is like xyz, God is with us, help us to be like this, where as the worship songs / choruses are more 'internal' - more about how we feel or how Jesus makes us feel. A friend calls them 'Jesus is my boyfriend' songs which is rather tongue in cheek, but not inaccurate.

I think that's reflective of the services themselves, in many ways. I think there's a reason the charismatic, lively churches are popular, and I do wonder if a lot of it is about how they make people feel, and getting caught up in the 'mood' of the service. More traditional CofE with a formal liturgy and hymns doesn't do that so much, and so people find them boring, dry and so on.
I was challenged by something our vicar said to me a few months ago about why we go to church - he said 'to worship God'. While the music and 'mood' can help with that, our worship of God shouldn't be dependent ON that. I think that going to church isn't about how I feel at the end of the service, because it's not about me, it's about God. Of course we need to feel as if we've been 'fed' by church and it's a place that challenges us and enables us to grow, but if it's all about the feels, I"m not sure that's right.

'Jesus is my boyfriend' songs made me laugh out loud, that's exactly what I was trying to put into words! You were much more succinct about the difference between Baptist and CofE too.

I like your challenge, it's given me food for thought. Thank you for sharing. X

I think this must be why the Quakers favour a quiet service!

@SycophantsUnite
Oh, you're welcome! Glad what I said was useful. It's something I still struggle with - nearly 4 years into my 'CofE life'. Sometimes the hymns are SO dry and slow.... Or I don't know them, which can be equally disheartening at times.
However, I feel the church where I go at the moment is the one I'm meant to be in at the moment, and so I stay. That won't be the same for everyone; I think we all need to find where we're supposed to be - and that's not necessarily a long term thing; it could be for a season.
Are there any churches nearby that might fit into the middle ground between the baptist and CofE churches?

You can find all worship music styles on YouTube - or your favourite music streaming service. This might be one way to connect with God whilst you look for the church that is just right for you. (Plus, you can listen along whilst doing the washing up or other chores, very handy.)

Here is Be Thou My Vision by Celtic Worship featuring Steph Macleod, I like this video:

Definitely try a few different styles of worship/churches OP. Perhaps a modern C of E church might suit as a half way house. Try one that is near a university, they tend to have more modern songs to cater for a younger congregation, but not so much throwing yourself on the floor!

I have been a Christian for many years and still absolutely loathe 'Jesus is my boyfriend' type songs.

I sing in the worship group and have been known to refuse to sing certain songs because I think the theology is questionable!

Thank you all, you're making me feel much better! This weekend, someone at church had a fair go at me about my husband not being with me, when I said he was atheist I could see I was shunned! Probably not the right setting for me.

@FriendofDorothy I'd LOVE to know which songs you refuse to sing!

There are plenty of worship songs which make me cringe, OP, and I'm a devoted Baptist. You need to find one where the minister understands music and theology equally. An old-fashioned one, in fact.

I can't think of any off the top of my head right now.

It tends to be a combination of JiMB lyrics and those with poor theology that make my teeth itch.

I'm singing at a worship event on Saturday - I'll try to remember which ones make me twitch!

“Jesus is my Boyfriend” is such an accurate description! 😂 DH and I have talked about this; he thinks it’s because contemporary worship songs are so closely modelled on pop, where the subject matter for the lyrics are all about love and desire. Some of them are a bit much; for example “I’m desperate for you” by Red Rocks Worship. My brain just couldn’t stop interpreting it as being about sex, and the “horny for Jesus” vibe made me so uncomfortable. Thankfully we don’t sing it anymore at our church!

Horny for Jesus 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

In defence of worship songs (the good ones), 'This is our God' got me through a very tricky day yesterday so I'm not against all of them lol.

I attend a CofE church that has 2 Sunday services. A traditional one and a "family" one. The family service is much more modern and accessible with worship music but not so wildly evangelical as the baptist church. That may be a good middle ground if you can find similar.

It's something to do with the chord progression that makes them sound like pop songs. There are a couple which sound just like Boyzone or Westlife songs. The guy leading worship and I always have a smile when we sing a song which could just as easily become 'You say it best, when you say nothing at all' by Westlife.

Give me some nice organ music and the New English Hymnal!

I loathe 'happy clappy' and the phrase 'praise and worship' makes

Yep New English Hymnal please (and even then, steer clear of the Victorian Public School hymns). Latin Gregorian chant even better! But I'm not very good at being a Christian so I possibly don't count.

BTW JiMB is now a word which has entered my vocabulary permanently. Thanks to PP! The 'Horny for Jesus' songs make my skin crawl; I get the urge to rush out of the building. So many of them are also so musically and theologically dumbed down it's just embarrassing. It's so ironic that when we're pregnant we're supposed to listen to Mozart to stimulate the baby but as soon as they're born it's The Wheels on the Bus and If I Were An Iggly Wiggly Worm. Children aren't thick, they're learning superheroes: give them proper music and proper theology if you want them to take their music and religion seriously.

Meanwhile, back on topic...

Here’s a ‘word earworm’ for you…
‘Worthy’
Sorry not sorry once you notice it and start examining it theologically 🤯

Making conversation with a receptionist in India, “ah Hillsong! Are you a Christian?”
”no, I just like the music” 😂

I'm no longer a Christian apart from culturally. However I used to be, and one of the things that caused me to lose my faith was the whole 'worship' concept. The idea that we should praise and shout out our undying love for Jesus with out-stretched arms... This is one song I remember as people used to go loopy at the "undignified" lyrics and just do crazy shit for the what appeared to be sake of it to show how extreme and properly devout their "love" was

i will dance i will sing to be mad for my king
nothing lord is hindering the passion in my soul
i will dance i will sing to be mad for my king
nothing lord is hindering the passion in my soul
(chorus)
and ill become even more undignified than this
some would say its foolishness but
ill become even more undignified than this
some would say its foolishness
repeat3x
nanana HEY!
nanana HEY!
nanana HEY!
nanana HEEEEEEY!

I detested that song @Tuilpmouse but fortunately it didn't feature much and vanished from the churches I have attended where people only went as far as raising one hand in praise. They love God passionately but are not ones for dancing wildly during a service.

There will be many more 'middle of the road' Baptist churches @SycophantsUnite whose worship style sit happily in between the two you describe above. My friends who attend charismatic/pentecostal churches always thought Baptists were a bit dull! Choose somewhere where people welcome you. Hopefully the insensitive questioning and reaction to your husband not being present was a one off and not a reflection on the rest of the congregation.

They quietly dropped that ‘hymn’ from the repertoire at ds’ university homechurch. Apparently the leadership team tried ‘managing’ the hysteria and failed. Imagine the risk assessment 😂

Terrible song.

Only popular really when I was going to the Cutting Edge giugs in Southampton in the 1990s. The song is absolute tripe.

🤣