Tolerance for Cognitive Dissonance

[echoesacrosstheether]

People often, IME, cite Cognitive Dissonance as a bad thing. As in it's bad to experience it. Whilst it doesn't feel pleasant I think it's necessary to have some tolerance for it. Otherwise new ideas which conflict with one's own would either be dismissed out of hand or wholly accepted too readily. When what might be better is having the ability to retain those two apparently conflicting ideas as being both true and seeing if context plays a part over which truth applies.

This, I think, has a relevance in spiritual and philosophical matters because people will knock a spiritual belief or philosophical world view just because it does not seem wholly consistent to them. Yet, they don't view the context whereby it might be applied.

I was wondering whether people agree.

'That is really the ultimate in cognitive dissonance fully knowing that just by virtue of being a human being with all of the capacity for good and bad that all people have, the people you love including yourself can do really bad things. That is very unnerving to live with.'

@Thepurplelantern, yes, unnerving but true. But also comforting in another way to know that when we make mistakes it is because we are only human. In Christianity we can rest in the redemption Christ gained for us through the cross. And as such we suffer alongside Him in the conflict between good and evil in and amongst humanity.

Yes, I mean language can be so restrictive and freeing at the same time.

it enables us to communicate, to share our thoughts and needs, explore. To work with others.

Yet at the same time it’s so limiting. We only have so many buttons we can press. That’s why symbolism is so important. Allegory. Poetry is incredibly important- it lies between the world of symbols and allegory.

I find it heartbreaking that language is being limited into computer speak, predictive text, suggested responses. It’s all impacting our ability to communicate effectively and limiting the number of SF perch buttons we have.

It’s a great debate to be had, did God create Man or did man create God. If the Latter on what level? Is there a primordial force which man shapes according to his limitations and needs periodically in order to be able to countenance the possibility of such a force that’s really beyond human comprehension? I quote Blake a lot, because I think he was one of the greatest revealers of truth to have ever walked this Earth. He wrote to his friend and journalist Crabb Robinson and stated “Jesus Christ is the only God, and so am I an so are you”

I think it illustrates the God like quality on mankind that we all have the capacity for great good and great evil. Yet repeatedly most people focus on what adds light to the universe.

Actually I’m reminded of a quote from Aleister Crowley

“The keystone… some have called God, some Brahma, some Zeus… some even IAO… but in truth, O seeker, it is Thy-SELF”

I think probably the biggest cognitive dissonance is the realisation that God is something external and internal within you at the same time. I think this is fundamentally what most religions and philosophies try and balance (although many interpreting them often miss that point)

For me, if we don't focus on bringing light, what's the point? The drive to make things better...

Is there any divinity in accepting things just as they are, with no hope for change for the better?

Getting personal and individual again, I
wrestle with faith and theology to help me cope with the complexity of life. It's the lens through which I work out how to feel, behave etc. when I reflect on scripture I unpick areas that bother me, and work out what to do about it. When I can't 'do' anything, then I work on how I feel.

My purpose is to make the world around me better.

While I accept the dark as inevitable, I don't see that inevitability as a reason to stop striving for light.

Have I misunderstood you, OMG?

"63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life"(John 6:63 King James Version)

@OMG12, the Bible talks about Jesus' words actually being spirit and life. It imbues a sense of immortality and power to words.

'I find it heartbreaking that language is being limited into computer speak, predictive text, suggested responses. It’s all impacting our ability to communicate effectively and limiting the number of SF perch buttons we have.'

It is interesting with the animal speech buttons how much they do communicate even with a very limited number of words. They will press buttons repeatedly for emphasis and string words together to make a composite word.

And John 6:63, which I quoted in my last post illustrates the Christian belief over which part of us, as human beings is divine. The spirit.

...which some people don't believe in...

I find biosemiotics a fascinating area of study. It expands our idea of what language could be considered to be to include biogical communication, signs and symbols; such as the way chemical path ways and genetic code communicates.

"It is interesting with the animal speech buttons how much they do communicate even with a very limited number of words. "

My dog doesn't have any buttons. If he did we'd regret it, I'm sure.

He's extremely opinionated, barks/growls/moans in specific ways. He uses distraction to get DH off the sofa, so he can nick DHs seat.
He actually brings me food he doesn't like and spits it out at my feet. If I don't react he gets more and does it again.
I think we'd be in serious trouble if he had buttons.

He needs better receptive language, not expressive language. I'd like to be able to explain that these treats have vitamins in so your tired old legs won't ache so much.

@picklemewalnuts 😁

Yes, watching the conversations there is one YouTube poster who spends a lot of time apologising and explaining herself to her cat! 😁

It’s a great debate to be had, did God create Man or did man create God. If the Latter on what level? Is there a primordial force which man shapes according to his limitations and needs periodically in order to be able to countenance the possibility of such a force that’s really beyond human comprehension? I quote Blake a lot, because I think he was one of the greatest revealers of truth to have ever walked this Earth. He wrote to his friend and journalist Crabb Robinson and stated “Jesus Christ is the only God, and so am I an so are you”

Yes I believe man created God in many, many forms throughout many, many traditions Jesus being one of many thousands of forms of God out there, but I believe that God is in us. We are God and at the same time we are the devil. We look to do good because that helps us not just to survive but to absolutely thrive as s species. People do evil because they are surrounded in adversity orbit exists deeply in them and evil gives them the easiest path through it but not the morally right path through it.

And what do you think the purpose was for man to create gods?

And what do you think the purpose was for man to create gods?

To give a feeling of control when things are going wrong that humans have no control over.

Famine, locusts, pests, disease, death of a loved one. What do people do? We pray to something we believe has control.

But then we give gods power to do as they choose which then surely takes away control, maybe gods give us comfort over our lack of control

Yes an externalised God is a comfort to humans. But also it has been used for eons for social control too. An all seeing God who can banish you to the fires of hell or hades or where-ever that social group has come to offers a very good means of control over people too.

For me thought I that God is a choice that people make to try to be the best version of themselves. For some people they externalise that to someone who has a plan for them that they attempt to follow for others it is an internal process. As for heaven and hell I believe they happen all around us in our actual lives. If you are a million miles away from God then that must be hellish to live like that.

"Yes I believe man created God in many, many forms throughout many, many traditions Jesus being one of many thousands of forms of God out there, but I believe that God is in us. ......
...Yes an externalised God is a comfort to humans. But also it has been used for eons for social control too. An all seeing God who can banish you to the fires of hell or hades or where-ever that social group has come to offers a very good means of control over people too."

@Thepurplelantern in true cognitive dissonance fashion have you considered both concurrently? That we not only create God(s) but that God is the creator?

So, for example, a god of capitalism could be created by those hungry for money and power, societal systems could be created that serve it, value it, worship it and feed into it whilst the true creator God exists? And thus exists a false god alongside God?

In the same vein there could be a god of self, a god of beauty, a god of hedonism, a god of sport....

i follow the maxim “As above so below…as set out in the Emerald Tablet. I think we are both created and the creator I believe that there is a very real possibility that God simultaneously creates and was created by another “God” ad Infititum.

Regarding the creation of God as social control, I think hell probably played a much larger part in doing this and you can see the development of this across society/time.

Strabo states “the states and the lawgivers had sanctioned them [concepts such as hell] as a useful expedient. [people] are deterred from evil courses when, either through descriptions or through typical representations of objects unseen, they learn of divine punishments, terrors, and threats…there is need of religious fear also, and this cannot be aroused without myths and marvels. . . . The founders of states gave their sanction to these things as bugbears wherewith to scare the simple-minded”

"I think we are both created and the creator,"

@OMG12, yes, I can see this within the unity we can have with God.

"that there is a very real possibility that God simultaneously creates and was created by another “God” ad Infititum."

..bit mind blowing that...hard to get the old head round.

"Regarding the creation of God as social control, I think hell probably played a much larger part in doing this and you can see the development of this across society/time."

Yes, I agree - it's what I think of as false god(s).

I can remember reading something (sorry but vague) Barbour out universe being the inside of a black hole in another universe, reflecting what happened in that universe and all the black holes in our universe containing other universes reflecting what was happening in ours. That was a bit mind blowing

Here you go https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/100409-black-holes-alternate-universe-multiverse-einstein-wormholes Black hole universe

Sorry that link didn’t work

www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/100409-black-holes-alternate-universe-multiverse-einstein-wormholes

Wow! @OMG12.