Complementarians in C of E

[GalaApples]

Please help me with this. I am in shock, angry and depressed since talking to someone in my church congregation. I didn't know him well but he always seemed a nice mild-mannered guy, no more than young middle aged. He told me in all seriousness that in marriage the woman must subordinate herself to her husband, and "submit". He justified this by quoting from Genesis about Adam and Eve and that she was always to be under his "headship". He also quoted from Ephesians and Corinthians. The Corinthians passage particularly upset me as it says that man is a reflection of God, but woman is a reflection of man (which I take to mean that she is not a reflection of God). I asked him outright if he thought men and women are equal, and he said yes but different, and she has to always be subservient and submit. I was astounded that he could say this and actually believe it. He went on to say that the husband must be the head of a family. I asked why does there need to be a head, and why does it have to be about authority rather than love. His only response was to ask Didn't I think that children should obey their parents. I didn't think of a suitable reply at the time, but feel that children need to be guided and taught and have good values imparted by their parents rather than brought up with a heavy emphasis on obedience, which suggests that punishment might also feature.
The fact that this is obviously open to massive abuse and domestic violence seems not to have occurred to this man, not to mention the dire effects on children of having relationships modelled in this unequal way. The basic unfairness of it left him completely unmoved.

Since then I have read a lot and realise that this position about women being under the headship of a man is called complementarian, (men and women are said to be equal but have complementary roles, but the woman is always lesser) as opposed to egalitarian, and that both approaches exist in the church. It is clear to me that the supporters of complementarianism in the church are actively trying to preserve the heavily male-dominated hierarchy by reference to "headship", which in the church context means that a man can never be under the authority of a woman, thus preventing advance upwards in the church by female clergy.
I am so upset by this and need to know if this is widespread in the church. I have come on here to ask if anyone knows how prevalent this pernicious movement is within the C of E, particularly among male clergy. Thanks for anything you can tell me.

Should have mentioned that there is no one really that I can talk to about this, and we do not have a vicar at present.

I am so upset by this and need to know if this is widespread in the church. I have come on here to ask if anyone knows how prevalent this pernicious movement is within the C of E, particularly among male clergy.

Pretty common minority in my completely anecdotal experience. The traditionalists have always felt that way- hence the special accomodations when women bishops came in- but the evangelical wing of the church is growing and seems increasingly dominated by US style biblical literalism.

Does your church have a curate? When my church was in vacancy a curate ran the show but every church is different.

There are lots of C of E priests, deacons and ordinands on social media these days and some will be happy to chat by DM. It is polite to ask, but it would be easy and quick to find one. You might find your area bishop has a social media presence too. I live in a major city so there are lots of churches too but I appreciate that this would not be the case in other geographies.

Another route I used to finding an ordained person in a hurry one time before I had a church with a vicar was the chaplain at the university I used to go to, I contacted him by email and he was happy to talk to me.

(I went through a phase when I needed to have a lot of conversations with ordained ministers quickly, and the church was in vacancy, hence knowing of a few options.)

There are probably a number of c of e clergy and bishops who don't agree with female ordination (newly.appointed bishop of Blackburn, for example). Whether this also means they believe that the man is the head of the household, I don't know.

Ordained person here. It is hard to know how many C of E clergy are in the complementarian camp. It is a minority. As far as I'm aware none of them advertise it openly on their church websites. The clue is that they will be under alternative episcopal oversight as there is a flying bishop for conservative evangelicals who object to women in leadership based on their reading of scripture. There is another bishop for those at the Catholic end of the C of E because the RC church doesn't.

If the church website says that the church is a member of REFORM or under the bishop of Ebbsfleet or Maidstone they are complemetarian or headship.

In my deanery there are 15 churches. One is headship. Another is Forward in Faith. The rest of us are a mixture of Anglo Catholic, charismatic evangelical and middle of the road choral and floral. We are urban though and my impression is that you are more likely to find headship churches in wealthier big towns and cities. I may be wrong.

This list isn't comprehensive but it is a start. A number of new bishops were consecrated today so I think the websites are being updated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ListoffconservativeevangelicallAnglicanchurchessinEngland

There aren't that many complementarian churches. In my deanery, we have one out of 10.

We are not complementarian, but we have a complementarian patron. We are looking for a complementarian church of a similar size to swap patrons with. It is not easy to find one.

The Wiki article is not great. We are a conservative evangelical church, but are not complementarian. We have a female incumbent, despite a complementarian patron (that was not an easy process). The complementarian parish in our deanery is not listed.

I have been warned that, as a churchwarden, I might have to deal with our patron in the next couple of years when she becomes a bishop .

Hi @GalaApples I can see that this is a topic you’ve been concerned with for a while and thought it best to bring further discussion here away from the inevitable “anyone who believes in God must be deluded” kind of comments on the main board. It’s such an emotive topic which clearly brings up strong emotions. I’d really advise you to try to speak to someone IRL about it. Only by getting to know someone can you know whether their faith and their theology bears out in their lives. Anyone can say they believe something, but unless you see the fruit of it in their lives, how do you know what they are like? Does the man you spoke to have a wife you could speak to to get her take on it? Or another woman at your church you could speak to?

They’re very much in a minority. The church is a massive spectrum from extreme conservative evangelicals to super-high church anglo catholics. Only the extreme conservative end is complementarian. Anglo catholics wont have woman priests either but for a different (slightly less offensive) reason. If you’re in the c of e then you kind of have to accept there are others in the c of e who believe stuff you think is bonkers, but also know you’ll find a church that fits you better if you look for it.

so… I think you probably need to find out if the majority of people in your church are also complementarian. You could try speaking to a lay minister or church warden to get this info. If they are, you might want to look elsewhere. Or you could choose to stay. A new vicar might change things. Our church has changed from a relatively catholic church which didn’t like women into a mostly low evangelical church happy with women leading in a few years.

We also have a minority of people who believe that in the Catholic Church but it is not taught and its not required to believe in that theory. Women and men are definitely both made in the image of God and are equal in marriage.

I think you'll get people with all sorts of views in congregations- it doesn't mean that their viewpoint is necessarily the stance of the church as a whole (leadership and what they'd put on their website).
People can grit their teeth and make all sorts of 'reasons' why they can live with something in one case but not another, if the church suits them overall. They might have been going there years and only recently had (for example) a female reader, but that's ok because 'she's not a priest and doesn't give out communion,' even though she might preach sermons.
Similarly the evangelical complimentarian church might do amazing kids work, so parents go there for that, but wouldn't agree with the church's stance on women.
If you want to know a particular church's stance, talk to the vicar or churchwarden. Sometimes the website can give an idea of their stance, but not always.

This one parishioner's view may not reflect that of the whole church. As your church is in vacancy, you might want to check if the PCC has passed a resolution to not consider appointing a female priest. Ask one of the wardens.