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Original poster

We are non-practising Anglicans, and DH wants one of the godparents to be Jewish!

23 replies

Upsidedownegg · 06/02/2008 21:18

DH is American and was brought up an Episcopalian. I was brought up C of E but am fairly agnostic.

We had DS christened as we thought it was the right thing to do by him. DS's godparents were C of E and Lutheran and he was christened in the Episcopalian church. All very ecumenical - but all very Protestant.

I am pg again and we were talking about godparents. DH mentioned his friend Mark. I don't have a problem with DH's choice of this particular guy; he's lovely and would be a great godparent. But I would have thought that any church - C of E or Episcopalian - is going to have trouble with a Jew making those promises at the Christening service. And wouldn't Mark find it quite difficult too?

And would our baby even be properly christened?

It just doesn't seem right to me. What do you think?

OP posts:

Original poster

Upsidedownegg · 06/02/2008 21:22

bump

OP posts:

Unfitmother · 06/02/2008 21:25

? Ask your vicar

KacyB · 06/02/2008 21:27

I reckon that god's an understanding fellow and, if you feel that these people are the best people to offer guidance and support and love to your child, then they are the best godparents you can have.

I am catholic, and my baby will (god willing) be baptised as a catholic, but not all of his god parents will be catholic and there will be a small part of the ceremony which is non denominational and talks simply of love, support and wellbeing.

DH and I have talked about this and we'll make it clear to the god parents that they will not be expected to uphold beliefs they themselves do not hold. I trust and respect these people, and believe they will always do the best for my son...

Hope that helps?

TotalChaos · 06/02/2008 21:28

shouldn't be a problem as long as at least one of the godparents are the same faith as you.

Lulumama · 06/02/2008 21:29

I am Jewish and from my perspective, I would not have been able to stand up in church and make the promises required of me, regardless of whether the vicar thought it was ok or not

so my friend made me her DD;s fairy godmother instead !

Original poster

Upsidedownegg · 06/02/2008 21:36

Thanks. Those are really interesting points.

Kacy, your point gets to the heart of why we would have the baby christened.

lulumama, thanks. I worry that Mark would have trouble making the relevant promises in church as you do. Though, DH phsl at the thought of Mark being a 'fairy godfather'!!!!!

OP posts:

bitofadramaqueen · 06/02/2008 21:38

hey upsidedown...

In principle, I dont think having someone of a different religion as a godparent is an issue per se.

I'm catholic and it usually depends on the priest whether or not at least one or all have to be catholic.

No idea about C of E but wouldn't have thought they would be as strict. I thought Episcopalian's were sort of anglo-catholics though? Have a good friend who's a very good practising Episcopalian so will ask him when I see him next (wont be for a wee while though).

Anyway, all that aside, it would really come down to whether it was acceptable to the vicar and more importantly, whether the friend Mark would be comfortable.

I definitely dont think it would make the christening any less real though. .

Lulumama · 06/02/2008 21:39

i think if the vicar is ok with it and the godfather is, then great ! i hope it all works out x

morningpaper · 06/02/2008 21:47

KacyB You can only have practising Catholics as godparents in a Catholic baptismal service. You can have non-Catholics as 'official witnesses' if your priest is nice, but that's all.

It is quite a nonsense to have a Jewish person make baptismal vows, which say things like: "It will be your duty to bring them up to keep God's commandments as Christ taught us" to which they say "I do" and "I claim you for Christ by the sign of the cross" - a non-Christian person cannot make those promises.

A child is 'correctly' baptised where there is water and they are baptised in the name of the trinity, as far as I recall. So it won't affect that. But I would be surprised if any priest allowed a non-Christian faith member to be a Godparent!

Why not just have them stand WITH the godparents, but not make the vows? You can explain the situation to the priest, who can give them a special role, e.g. holding the candle or baptismal garment etc.

KacyB · 06/02/2008 21:52

MP.. thanks! My priest must be very nice, as he said it would be no problem... Just that we have to 'suspend' the religious ceremony for the non catholics... I guess that is what he meant - they would be witnesses in the eyes of the church... I do also have 2 catholics, who I suppose could be seen as the 'official godparents' (AKA, the ones that would look after my DS if anything untoward should happen to me / DH) so maybe he's OK with that...

Personally, I just want these people, who are important in my life and will be important in DS's life to have an active role in the baptism... As you say, holding a candle or other role might be the way to go?

Thanks!

Original poster

Upsidedownegg · 06/02/2008 21:56

Thanks MP, like the suggestion of Mark having a special role without having to make those promises.

Priest in Episopalian church is a very liberal gay woman, but suspect that even she would have an issue with a godparent from a different religion.

OP posts:

themildmanneredjanitor · 06/02/2008 21:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sophiewd · 06/02/2008 22:09

morningpaper sorry would have to disagree our parish priest said as long as one is catholic then that was fine, DD has 2 catholic and 2 protestants, he is an extremely strict priest as well, we were not allowed a blessing as DH has been married before and was divorced not annulled

ChinaSurprise · 06/02/2008 22:16

Hi Upsidedown. Blimey - lots of different answers - sounds like it's at your vicar's discretion.
Without wishing to undermine/ hijack, I like the idea of a fairy godmother and am deffo making my flaky friends ones and don't feel right handing them full on responsibility, but would be nice to acknowledge. Just need to get some wings...

KacyB · 06/02/2008 22:18

Sophie... Hi... I think the catholic church is much stricter about marriage - I also couldn't get a blessing as DH has been married before... Our priest did suggest an annulment, but he has two children by that marriage and, though it didn't work out, that doesn't mean it negates the love those children were born into, so we left it there.

My personal feeling is all these rules are set down by humans. I personally don't believe God minds as long as we are good decent people.

Sorry, off topic there!

Rolf · 07/02/2008 08:11

Hi Upsidedownegg - I'm Catholic and we were told that we had to have one practising Catholic and the other(s) had to be baptised but not necessarily Catholic. It really helped us as we don't know an awful lot of Catholics!

Boredveryverybored · 07/02/2008 08:16

We had DD christened catholic and priest would not allow any godparents that were not catholic and had gone through communion and confirmations.
I didn't have the nerve to tell him that I had never actually been confirmed myself!

morningpaper · 07/02/2008 08:19

Strictly speaking, the non-Catholic godparents are not godparents - they are "official witnesses". As long as there is one 'official' godparent (who is Catholic) then yes some priests allow others to be there but they are not 'godparents' in quite the same sense. This is set down in Canon Law I think (deffo is in the Catechism.)

Of course it doesn't really matter from your point of view, it's just a technicality.

We had a non-Christian 'godparent' (anglicans) and he stood with the official godparents but did not make the vows that he felt unable to make. He was the person that the priest passed the lit candle to. As far as the children are concerned, he is their godparent just as much as the 'official' ones are. I think he has a special role to play in their spiritual development so I think this is a nice compromise.

morningpaper · 07/02/2008 08:20

(I mean WE are anglicans btw)

bitofadramaqueen · 07/02/2008 13:00

Was at a family christening recently (catholic) and definitely a christened non-catholic godparent/witness/fairy godmother who made the vows etc.

I think a lot of catholic priests dont apply the 'rules' about baptism quite so strictly these days because of falling numbers (and the fact that the child's parents just might not know that many catholic candidates for godparent).

Cant see them ever easing up on marriage though!

Upside down - I'd have a chat with vicar/minister etc and get there opinion then you can take it from there.

AMumInScotland · 07/02/2008 13:48

In the Scottish Episcopal Church (Anglican) the officiant would say to the parents and godparents "The Christian life means turning from evil and turning to Christ. Standing now with Christ, do you renounce evil?", and "Seeking now to follow him, do you turn to Christ?". And they would have to agree to those things.

Would your Jewish friend really be able to stand in a Christian church and say that?

AMumInScotland · 07/02/2008 13:50

Oh, and after the congragation has recited the creed, he turns to the parents and godparents and they say "This is our faith. We believe in one God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit"

bitofadramaqueen · 07/02/2008 16:43

Just in case anyone else like me was a bit in the dark about where Episcopalian's were in the religious spectrum, their website says they are a middle ground between Roman Catholics and Protestant traditions. So now I know.

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