Ten year cycles of belief then non belief

[stbrandonsboat]

I'm in my early 50s and, as I look back on my life, I can see that my periods of belief in God tend to run for around a decade then comes around another decade of non belief.

I accompany young adult ds to church as I enjoy it, but how can I commit to belief once and for all? It's like I'm two different people. How can people believe in God in a permanent state? What do you do if the doubt descends and decides to settle within you?

Fake it till you make it? Just continue going to church and enjoying the service. Just listen to the service and see how you feel.

It sounds like you believe in something more and maybe eventually you just drop back into what you know as a way to try and satisfy that then after a while you realise it doesn’t quite cover off what you feel so you reject it again and restart the cycle.

look into alternative beliefs. Within Christianity there are many different beliefs - escoteric Christianity and Gnostic Christianity (probably more original), Christian mysticism. Maybe you feel more that you are just an emanation of God rather than separate? Look into Neoplatonic thought, maybe you have a sense of being your own God and everything is a reflection Look into hemeticism? Maybe you feel drawn to nature as something more than just physical look into neopagenism and/or Wicca. There’s loads of things out there which exist as western spiritual practices which are usually much more easy to understand for the western mind than the standard default when finding an alternative to established Christianity of looking East.

Yes, I'm going to keep on going as it is nice and I don't get out much either.

I did some nature based pagan stuff a few years ago, but it just felt hollow and empty. I couldn't see the point so stopped going. I'm still a nature and tree nut, but I don't believe in the pagan gods/goddesses etc.

If you prefer a more Christian God, there’s lots of alternatives too, you could look into Christian Mysticism - you might want to start with Meister Eckharts works. That should fit into going along to church and might add a different angle to the teachings there which might make is more sustainable.

Alternatively you could look at Esoteric Christianity although less likely to fit into the teachings of the church so easily but uses the same Gods, the same scripture (plus other gospels) etc.

if you keep repeating the same cycles you prob need to try something new.

Can you put your finger on anything that might trigger the periods of doubting/ lack of belief?

The Bible warns of spiritual apostasy and says that it will greatly increase before the end (which I personally believe is very close at hand). We are all at different stages in our faith journey, but it ultimately comes down to "Confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see." Hebrews 11:1.
True faith is also described as a gift from God. I would begin by sincerely praying for an increase in your faith and for the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the subsequent change of heart you're seeking. Reading the Bible and making changes in your own life to follow its teaching is also a crucial part of this. Ask for the people at church to pray directly with you, ask for forgiveness and name out loud (in private) anything you need to bring before God, become baptised or confirmed if you haven't already done so and take communion.

Peace be with you @stbrandonsboat.

@OMG12 Hello again! The belief systems you note and Christianity are mutually exclusive, not the harmonious union you seem to think they are. Personally, my religion is not a sort of hobby and I think if you're asking "What's in it for me?" you aren't doing it for the right reasons.

Good evening there. It’s always good to bump into you. Hope you’re well.

It depends which angle you’re coming from, for me they work perfectly fine together, different approaches to the same source materials (with some additional ones thrown in). If you follow a particular interpretation of Christianity it will depend how strictly you follow every last detail as to how well any other view fits in of course. But Christianity is a bit like that as it’s been a living tradition for 2000 years.

@OMG12 I'm really well thanks, hope you are too 😊
Alas, I don't think I'll be able talk you round on this one. I'm always very wary using any material aside from the Bible in spiritual matters, including the Book of Enoch, even though it gets a mention in Jude. 2 Timothy 3:15-17 says, "...and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." It is God's revelation to us - we shouldn't try to change or add to it.

Yes very well here thanks. Looking forward to Christmas now.

Of course if you were part of the Ethiopian church the Book of Enoch would be fair game.

I guess we will never agree with certain theological aspects, and that’s fine. I have a different view that in centuries past would have got me burned at the stake so nowadays all is good😁. The compilation of the canon is very much a man made construct for me, but I respect for you that is different.

but it’s always good chatting with you, at least we manage to maintain a kind, courteous and respect dialogue.😂

if we don’t speak again before Christmas hope you and your family have a peaceful and joyous time

@OMG12 Thank you very much and the same to you x

I'm autistic and tend to be a hyper rational, logical person. I don't recognise emotions as a reason to guide me in my life and I've never experienced anything emotional whilst attending church or saying prayers etc. I don't feel any different from doing something like shopping or housework or something. It's very frustrating tbh. We're told to 'love' God, but, to me, loving someone is expressed and felt differently to how other people probably feel. The chances of me experiencing something mystical in regards to faith are pretty much nil. I therefore don't really perceive God and end up at the logical conclusion that it's made up and He doesn't exist. I can cope with the concept of God, but not the reality. What does that leave me with?

I like going to church because I like the history, music, colours, icons, ritual, incense, words and it's the only opportunity I have to see, and stand near other people. Is that enough?

I understand what the teachings of Christianity are, but I can't say I can relate to loving others, although I try to help people and would never do harm or anything like that. I am frightened of people tbh. I prefer animals.

I wish God would send a sign or something so I could have some hope to hang on to. The Orthodox Church teaches that you don't need to have a dramatic, born again experience and that faith involves the long haul.

All of those things are great reasons to be in church imo. All of those things are designed to create an often unperceived response.

But what do you want from religion or faith?

Much of Christianity is based in symbolism and allegory, it’s not really rational or logical (well to me at least) please forgive me, as my knowledge of autism is embarrassingly small is this something you can connect with or do you prefer and connect better with something with more literal interpretation.

You say you want a sign? Why is it important that you believe in God?

I like the Eastern Orthodox Church. Personally I find it a bit more pure. Is this something you can explore?

I want to believe in God because I like holiness and am also afraid of going to hell. I find great beauty and meaning in the Bible and am in awe of some of the things that the Saints did and what incredible lives they lived. I find that really inspirational.

I do struggle with relating the stories in the Bible to real life and to understand their meaning because I do see things in literal terms. I can't be the only one and I suppose that's why the Priest has to explain them following the Gospel reading 😄

Then I get this annoying thought in my mind "What if it's not true? You're devoting your life to a figment of your imagination"

Well I would say wanting to find something sacred, something bigger than us is a deep seated need.

I wouldn’t be too concerned about Hell see the Meaning of Hell. you should remember that the Bible has gone through changes and translations and Hell has been blown out of proportion and context for rather dubious reasons.

it sounds like you get a lot of going to church, some of which, esp around the rituals some of which will be subconscious.

to many imagination is another layer of reality and many spiritual practices rely heavily on imagination. Even if it is all made up, does it matter? It has meant you do things in your life you enjoy doing, that you get a benefit from, this should be reason in itself to keep doing them.

no one can categorically state using empirical methods god does or doesn’t exist. The scientific method was designed to measure, explain and observe our world of which God is not a part of she exists. People may or may not have experience which proves existence to them.

Enjoy what you enjoy and get benefit from from church. Try and live your life in the way the priest explains the Bible to you. You will live a good life, doing something you enjoy. That would never be the waste of a life.

Thanks for helping me explore this matter. I never really considered imagination being part of reality, but I suppose it is in a way. I will keep going to church. It's hard on the legs and back because they stand up. I joked to ds that Orthodox Christians deserve to get into heaven because of the length of services and all the standing up 😄

No worries - for imagination look into William Blake’s four fold vision or Samuel Taylor Coleridge’ exploration of imagination in his auto biography.

but wish you all the best on your journey, trust in it, you’ll get to the right destination.

hope you and DS have a wonderful Christmas when you celebrate it.

Thank you, I hope you have a lovely Christmas too.

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, it's a very busy time of year for me!

I think OMG12 made a good point about imagination playing a part, particularly in terms of visualising God, Heaven, stories within the Bible etc. I wouldn't worry too much about not having a 'seeing the light moment', although I have experienced something similar myself I find open public displays of emotion - clapping, dancing, crying etc a bit ott and I'm far too English for all that!

I must once again disagree with OMG12, this time on the subject of Hell - Jesus makes reference to it directly quite a few times. It's one uncomfortable truth that I spend more time than is healthy thinking about. I keep returning to the verse, "If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him." 1 John 4:15-16.

Being autistic and facts driven, I would recommend doing some research into the evidence which backs up the historical accuracy of the Bible. I recently watched a programme about an excavation at the site of ancient Jericho (by secular archaeologists). They found, among other things, pottery dating to the time of Joshua's invasion, walls collapsed in a way consistent with the biblical account and pots containing the chard remains of grain - the invasion happened at harvest time and the Israelites were ordered to burn the city and not plunder any goods. I find this helps to reinforce my faith.
There are also plenty of resource material, including lots of free YouTube videos, breaking down, explaining and analysing Scripture to make it easier to digest (word of warning to use discernment and check the source of their information though).

A very merry Christmas to you @stbrandonsboat, I've sent up a prayer for you.