If your parents have faith but you don’t

[Inlawfaithquestions]

….how do you work out the boundaries of them talking to DC about it?

Background is that both me and DH were raised as strict evangelical Christians but have now left the church. Dh in particular feels a lot of animosity about it, and feels very strongly that he doesn’t want dc to be in church. I miss the social/community aspects and think it’s shame that they’ll miss out on that, but broadly I agree.

Dh parents are still passionate believers, and very worried about dc going to hell and not having a relationship with Jesus.

GP occasionally look after DC including a couple of overnights. Dc have told me that there are quite a lot spiritual discussions with GP whilst they were looking after them. For example, they’ve discussed death and heaven. They apparently do quite long prayer sessions at bed times and they’ve talked about their church and the childrens groups and asked Dc if they want to go.

They haven’t taken them to church, but they’ve only ever stayed Friday to Saturday night so there hasn’t been an opportunity.

Mostly I’m upset that they done all this without having a conversation with us to ask what we’re comfortable with. It all feels very ‘behind our backs’.

I don’t know if I’m being paranoid, but it feels like theyre having these conversations now to see if Dc tell us, and if they hadn’t they’d have taken them to church without asking us. Dc were quite upset when they spoke to us, as they felt like they shouldn’t be telling and didn’t want to get GP ‘in trouble’. I don’t think they were specifically told not to tell us though.

Has anyone got any experience of this dynamic, or advice on how to approach it?

You need to talk to the grandparents to discuss what is acceptable to you.

Your children will basically just follow what you tell them but perhaps you might consider letting them hear both sides and making up their own minds.

Bible stories (insert faith here) and celebrations are in my view fine but talk about sin, hell and anything that makes DC feel like they are on a "path" to something - then that is a big red flag. Personally I would very very clear on boundaries ad if they didn't respect that - then I would go no contact.

I just let them get on with, my kids know people have different beliefs, never been an issue. Granny is full on RC and I couldn't be any further away from it.

That was very underhand of the grandparents. 😕

This is extremely awkward eh. I don’t see much middle ground. Either you let them do what they like or you put your foot down and make clear to them that you do not believe what they believe and you have made the decision you don’t want your children in church, and you want them to be crystal clear on that. But ugh they will be upset. I don’t see a way around it though.

My parents are religious and I’m not but mine are more low key and patiently waiting for me to see the light I think. They sometimes do things like give DC a bible / try to gently persuade me to take them to church for the social side, but that’s it.

I wouldn't allow it.

I feel very strongly about religious indoctrination of children.
They wouldn't be staying the night with gran if she is hell bent on the mind twisting

Are your children old enough to understand that the GP have their beliefs and you and their dad don’t share them? If so I would be fairly relaxed about it. The GP’s beliefs, which you and their dad were brought up with are part of your family story after all. Not only that but it can be good for children to learn that people believe passionately in all sorts of things and we can respect or at least be tolerant/respectful about the deeply held values, beliefs or faith of others without necessarily sharing them. Lots of families have similar issues where the deeply held values of one generation are in conflict with the other.

It gives you a chance to reflect upon and explain what you value about your upbringing and what you don’t and why you believe or choose differently from their GP which will be really helpful for your children in understanding where everyone is coming from and in relating to others in society who have different beliefs.

I think it would be very difficult for the GP to not mention their beliefs at all but perhaps if you discuss with them they will understand some ground rules of what boundaries you really don’t want crossed for example scaring the DC with fire and brimstone type of thing, or not taking them to church or whatever it is about their beliefs and practices which you believe would be detrimental to your DC. I would also encourage your DC to let the GP know when they are not enjoying the prayer or religious talk for whatever reason and/or teach them how to change the subject.

I think that your DC are more likely to align with you and their dad ultimately than the GP. I think that is even more likely if you are fairly relaxed in your approach.

That your DC are worried about getting their GP in trouble is concerning, I am sure you don’t want them to feel they need to hide anything from you for fear of family conflict resulting so I wonder if you might want to reassure them about that and not be openly angry about the GP sharing their beliefs but just explain calmly why you don’t share them and have chosen not to follow them. Ultimately though, if the GP are upsetting the DC or persistent in trying indoctrinate there is always the option to reduce contact or end the sleepovers and just visit as a family.

I hope it all works out well for your family and you can find a happy resolution!

Thanks everyone for you input. We spoke to them about it and laid out some boundaries.

FIL was very offended that we’d raised it and denied that he’d been involved at all. MIL remembered one conversation.

Since then DC have revealed further conversations including FIL, so he wasn’t honest about it even when asked directly. The kids are clear that IL are initiating it.

I think we will go down the route of visiting them as a family. Dc quite little still and don’t want to put them in the middle of it. I’m happy for them to be exposed to others beliefs but I don’t want them being manipulated and it feels like that’s what’s happening.

So the committed Christians are lying through their teeth to you.
If it were my parents they could knock themselves out telling bible stories and parables as far as I'm concerned as my kids could take it or leave it and would certainly get an alternative view at home.
But making them pray and scaring them with talk of heaven and hell? I'd be furious.
I think whole family visits as you've suggested is the best compromise you can make. How dare they!

I would be furious. My mother has tried to do this with my children and I just feel like she is sabotaging my parenting, when it comes to this. We’ve had many arguments about this attempted brain washing and she gets very upset and storms off.

She keeps saying to at least teach them something about Christianity, so they have some kind of faith. But as i always clearly and emphatically tell her you don’t need religion,, especially Christianity and all the awful things that have been done in the name of it, to teach children about kindness, goodness and humanity - religion does not have a monopoly on these. This usually drives her mad and she doubles down on her sabotaging efforts. I’ve lost a lot of respect for her, over this. But I will always fight her on this.

OP just stand firm in your resolve and give plenty of push back. Don’t worry about your parents in laws feelings, about this, because it’s not about them but about your children and how you snd your husband wish to raise them.

Grandparents know that while I respect their right to follow a Christian religion, I believe that the faith is actively harmful to teach children. My child has received a textbook introduction to it just like other world religions, but no one in the family is allowed to try to convince her that it is real.

Yes the whole thing is very duplicitous. They’re claiming that it’s led by Dc asking questions, but when dc describe it it’s clear gp have been engineering it.

I don’t mind them talking about their faith to a certain extent but I don’t like the dishonesty.

For the people saying that they don’t allow gp to talk about faith, or have boundaries about what can be, how do feel confident this is being followed?

I don’t want to be pumping my kids for info after every visit. So far it’s come up naturally in conversations about other things so I suppose I could continue that approach and let my kids talk to me about it when they want to.

Not to drip feed, but it’s part of pattern of Gp not respecting boundaries eg giving extra dessert secretly after I’ve said no.

*about what can be said

I had no confidence- so my kids didn't stay with grandma without my supervision.

I normally agree with the idea that people should make their own minds up.. however religion/God are 100% not real, so I don't agree with it in this situation.

There's a reason that believers fall in number every generation.

Religion comes from a time when science couldn't explain things, so it made it easier to think that God made the world, storms were God being angry or punishing us etc.

We have science now.

Not to drip feed, but it’s part of pattern of Gp not respecting boundaries eg giving extra dessert secretly after I’ve said no.

If this is a pattern then in your shoes I absolutely wouldn’t leave my children alone with them. I would make excuses, minimise contact and my children would only see these GPs as part of a family visit.

It does sound like this is part of a wider pattern of behaviour. Whether it is extra puddings or a conservative view of Christianity you have said no to both and they should respect that. Can you have a discussion about why they are doing this? My sister in law had problems with the in-laws who would put sugar in bottles and not put sunblock on babies and toddlers. It was a real battle. My in-laws had not moved on from the 1950s and really struggled with the late 20th century which had become an unfamiliar and frightening place for them. I think that was why they stuck to the child rearing practices of the fifties.

It does sound as if something else is going on. Conservative Christianity is about rules and certainty. If they are ignoring your rules that is odd so what else is underpinning it?

I’m leaning this way too. I just don’t trust them and I can’t leave my kids with someone I don’t trust.

There’s a lot of talk in their church about being ‘counter cultural’ and obeying Christ even if it’s offends people.

They’ve talked a lot in the past about Christian’s being persecuted, so they probably think we’re persecuting them by having boundaries.

Thats the reason I can’t see anything changing, even if we do talk to them again. They believe it their duty to talk about Jesus to anyone and everyone whenever they can. Us getting upset about it isn’t reason enough to stop.

Coming from the other side, I'm a Christian and most of my family are not any more.

I absolutely wouldn't let your PIL babysit the kids again because they haven't respected your parenting decisions on this or other matters. See them as a family, but not the kids alone. Make alternative arrangements with people you can trust to not lie to you about how they look after your children.

With my nephews and nieces, I don't do bedtime prayers or Bible stories or any of the stuff I did with my own dc, nothing specifically child-focused, but I wouldn't stop things that I do anyway like grace before meals or saying thank you to God for a beautiful moonlit night (for example), and I do give them a little blessing at bedtime. I would always go to church on a Sunday, with the kids if I had them. This hasn't been an issue so far since there's always been someone else around to mind the kids while I'm at church. But I have no problems being upfront about it and telling my siblings & their spouses what I do and don't do.

Sorry I should add that we did address the secret food giving, and other things they’ve done. Often our rules are broken in a way that very obvious and intended to cause a reaction/let’s all laugh behind mummy’s etc.

When we address things head on they do stop, but there’s always another thing.

*behind mummy’s back!

Sorry for the typos, I’m a bit stressed out as im typing

Often our rules are broken in a way that very obvious and intended to cause a reaction/let’s all laugh behind mummy’s etc.

I couldn’t tolerate this. Constant undermining of you. It may seem low level but it’s insidious. Absolutely the last thing any mother needs.

Agreed. I do try and call it out at the time but it’s exhausting because it’s constant.

Don't leave the kids alone with them, and make sure the grandparents know why.