If you are gay and a Christian

[Shasha28]

Can I ask whether you're entirely at peace with your personal and religious life - or are the two at odds? Do you find problems, like Christian friends treating you a little differently because of you religion, or gay friends being a bit suspicious about your religious life? And how do you overcome the passages in the New Testament where homosexuality is described as sinful? (I'm sorry if this is a really personal question but I'm having a confusing period recently and really want to hear advice from other Christians about this issue!). I'm aware that the passages in the Old Testament don't need to be worried about but it's the New Testament that leaves me feeling a little anxious. I really want to hear how others interpret it.

Thank you in advance!

It's more complicated than either 'side' want to believe.

Part of it is about attempting to preserve unity. It was discussed in a course I was on, 20 years ago, and explained that even if the Anglican Church was United about same sex marriage, the bigger part of the church is in areas of Africa where it is still taboo. It can't be imposed on a majority who don't accept it. The hope has been that the shift can be accomplished gradually, the way the ordination of women was.

There's also a shifting of language which has happened. Marriage now includes same sex couples except in the church. It didn't used to. Marriage meant a man and a woman, by definition. It wasn't about romantic love, it was about all sorts of stuff.
I can actually understand people's objection to redefining a word. I object to the redefining of 'woman' to allow men to won women's medals, for example.

I'm on the brink of leaving CofE about this and other issues. However I know a chap who's already left for the opposite reason- because he objects to the movement toward same sex marriage!

It is complicated. In my part of the C of E there are lots of gay and lesbian priests. Some may be bi. Some are civilly partnered, some are in relationships and some are not. In some parts of Anglo Catholicism it is the exception to be straight and a priest. In churches down the road marriage between one man and one woman is the only way and women may not lead.

My take for what it is worth is that it comes down to how you read the bible as well as culture you have been brought up in. Our worldview affects how we read text and that includes the bible. This outs me as a post liberal.

The article below looks at the 'clobber verses' from the 'let's study the bible in context' point of view. Conservative readers of the bible who want it to be read literally will not agree. They will struggle with the ban in the OT where God demands with the destruction of all life following a victory in war. A commentator pointed out today that Numbers 31 is tricky for literalists as it says that only virgins may be saved from death after conquest.

postbarthian.com/2017/10/11/clobber-verses-six-scriptures-cited-gays-lesbians-sex-relationships-lgbtq/

The 'clobber' verses are daft. I have no respect for people who use them as their justification, unless they are also following every other word literally.

Individual verses can be us to argue all sorts, both sides, and anything imaginable. In the past it's been used to justify slavery.

It's unacceptable in this day and age to use it in that way. We know better.

Sorry, @mostlydrinkstea , my frustration escaped me there!

I’m bi and Christian- I’m perfectly at peace with myself and my faith but I struggle with the church sometimes. I grew up Catholic and now attend CoE. I understand the difficulties in wanting to preserve the Anglican union but also it hurts to not feel accepted by your church as a whole (even if my actual local church is accepting and lovely).

As for passages in the Bible- it is so, so complicated. I’m not a Biblical scholar but I studied Classics and translation is a far more nuanced thing than people realise, influenced by the translator’s own biases and the tradition of what came before, not to mention the different viewpoints of people and cultures across thousands of years. Romans is a great example- it talks about men who commit shameful acts with men. And we interpret that as “gay men”, and apply it to our concept of homosexual relationships. But Romans didn’t have that- they didn’t have two men happily living as equals. In their world, the body of a Roman citizen was regarded as inviolable. Therefore a Roman man could have sex with whatever he wanted- women, men, often slaves- and it wasn’t particularly frowned upon, so long as nothing was violating his body (ie. nobody penetrated him). On top of that, unmarried upper class women were basically completely inaccessible to young single men, so a man wanting to have sex before he was married primarily had the options of prostitutes or slaves. So you can see how all of that context could breed a really unhealthy sexual dynamic, that Paul would want to warn people about. But can we take all of that and translate it into our understanding of modern equal gay relationships? It doesn’t work, imo. The Bible is a historical text and it needs to be studied with historical context.

any modern translation will be close to the Latin in meaning.

What about the translations from the original into Latin ?

Because I'm a gay Christian and its a decision I have made myself, as have many other same sex attracted Christians. Others choose not to.

There's nothing in the OP that suggests that she want to be single. Most people don't.

That's why I said in my post, I don't know whether it applies to the OP or not, but if it did, this was a good book. I've made a very personal and difficult decision for myself, I've no interest in pushing that decision on anyone else, it's right for me but might not be right for others. The op asked for advice/help and as a gay Christian I replied with a few resources I personally found helpful.

from living out website

www.livingout.org/resources/articles/19/is-it-ever-responsible-for-people-with-same-same-attraction-to-get-married

"I am convinced that some people with same-sex attraction can and should get married (to someone of the opposite sex)."

and your promoting this how irresponsible

this bunch of people living in denial and self hate are allowed to call themselves a charity
most of the arguments on that website seem to be saying yeah on thr surface it seems like there's nothing with homosexuality but it's wrong because... it just is okay

www.livingout.org/resources/articles/24/whats-wrong-with-a-permanent-faithful-stable-same-sex-sexual-relationship

www.livingout.org/resources/articles/24/whats-wrong-with-a-permanent-faithful-stable-same-sex-sexual-relationship

"So, if I’m ever tempted to get ‘married’ to a man I’ll need to be reminded that real sex is unity in difference. However easy and natural it might feel for me to be in a sexual relationship with a man, that does not make it right in God’s sight."

so gay sex and marriage aren't real but yeah their totally not homophobic

OP asked if fellow Christians might treat her a bit differently for being gay. Unless you would give all these resources for remaining single to a straight person who did not indicate they might need them, I think the answer is yes.

Do Catholics still take that line now that gay and lesbian people can have same sex marriages in the UK?

He didn’t. Jesus didn’t mention it. I think he would have, if it was so vastly important.

I'd imagine it depends on the catholic

Living Out are an absolutely disgusting organization. I looked at their website after the Church I was attending at the time praised them. I genuinely found it really upsetting and distressing to watch their videos. That those lesbians and gay men were feeling obliged, and clearly struggling, to live a single life, being patronized by being ‘included’ in straight families ( like a friend said, ‘yeah and if that family decide to move, they are not going to take ‘their’ lesbian with them, are they?) And the clearly gay man now in a sham straight marriage. Absolutely appalling that such cruelty is being promoted in this day and age.

“Married” for the purposes of the Catholic Church means “married in the Catholic Church”. Civil weddings don’t count.

Reading some of the PPs, I’m very glad to be a member of the Church of Scotland!
We have approved gay marriages in church, if ministers are willing to perform them. My own previous minister was a lesbian feminist.
Jesus only gave two commandments to his human followers - to love God, and to love our neighbour as ourselves. When asked “Who is my neighbour?” he replied “Everyone”.
NOT “Everyone except those nasty gays, don’t love them, I don’t want them in my church!”