If you are gay and a Christian

[Shasha28]

Can I ask whether you're entirely at peace with your personal and religious life - or are the two at odds? Do you find problems, like Christian friends treating you a little differently because of you religion, or gay friends being a bit suspicious about your religious life? And how do you overcome the passages in the New Testament where homosexuality is described as sinful? (I'm sorry if this is a really personal question but I'm having a confusing period recently and really want to hear advice from other Christians about this issue!). I'm aware that the passages in the Old Testament don't need to be worried about but it's the New Testament that leaves me feeling a little anxious. I really want to hear how others interpret it.

Thank you in advance!

I am perfectly at peace with my faith and my sexuality, though that wasn't always the case.
Some christians I've met think you can't be gay and be a christian, let alone be in a relationship. Some of my gay friends think I'm a bit nuts being a christian. It used to feel like being in no mans land, but in more recent years I think attitudes on both sides have changed and people are more tolerant / accepting.
Regarding the bible passages, I did some research, did some thinking, asked myself if what I was brought up to think they believe WAS what they actually said, and came to my own conclusions.
I think everyone has to do that - some gay christians feel they should stay single, others don't. Some even desire not to be gay at all. Personally, I would want to know what it is that's driving that - and for them to be honest about answering; to really think about things.
You can read books which take the six so called 'clobber passages' and explain how they mean exactly what they say they mean, and books which explore the passages and offer a totally opposite point of view.
Remember that Paul's letters were written for specific groups of people, specific situations and in a certain time. They were never intended to be 'scripture' - Paul was responding to or writing to groups of people he knew. (And if you're reading Romans 1, don't start at 'therefore' (v24) but go back and read the previous bit that the 'therefore' refers to. 🙂)

Even the Pope acknowledges you can be gay and Christian.

I can only speak for Catholicism, gay people are very welcome in the Church, after all we are all God's children however anyone not married is expected to live a life of celibacy. I have the utmost respect for anyone who lives a chaste life.

I'm neither gay nor Christian.

However, I accept Jesus Christ as a Jewish revolutionary and all round good bloke. My theory is this, you know he would have loved and accepted you. You know that completely, right? Everything else is just other people's nonsense.

And that's the message for everyone else when they're baffled.

Good thing then that gay people can now get married in this country.

So gay people are welcome so long as they never have a loving relationship. Ew. Not surprised your homophobic though.

I'm neither gay nor Christian, but my very long time & very close friends partner is a practicing US Catholic & my old friend has taken on the religion as his too after decades together.

They've been together for well over 30 years & I know both would love to be married. They won't marry until they can marry under their religion though. So yes is does affect them negatively

OP, are you having problems with people in your church?

@MaryChild

That doesn't sound very welcoming.

I've never understood how a faith can describe their god as 'loving' when he singles out a group of people and says 'hey, you - yeah the gay ones. I love you, OK? But you can never have sex and you aren't allowed to get married because you're same sex. But I still love you'.

Seems pretty damn abusive to me.

I agree, however your love of God should always come first over anything else. There are videos out there to explain this far better than I can, I'm sure both Jackie Angel and Fr Mike have done them.

I don't believe for a second Jesus would have judged those who were gay.

Bible translators have a lot to answer for. Did you know James VI&I is responsible for the King James Bible being anti-woman and witches-are-in-league-with-the-Devil?

I read that the earliest Biblical texts didn't say anything against homesexuality and that translations of the Bible swapped out the words for pedophilia and replaced with them with homosexuality.

Which actually makes more sense historically.

@LurpakAspirations KJV is a Protestant Bible so I've never read it. Douay-Rheims is the traditional English Catholic Bible. The Latin Vulgate was the standard bible used at Mass for at least 400 years until the 1960s and probably earlier, that was translated in the 4th Century.

I've also read that the word homosexual wasn't used until 20th Century translations however my understanding is that it replaced words and phrases that mean the same thing. I'm fairly confident that it's just the evolution of language, I wouldn't read anything else into it. I'm fairly confident, if I looked up a passage in the Vulgate, any modern translation will be close to the Latin in meaning.

From a theological sense, this is a complex and controversial topic best left to people other than me, I do know there are strong arguments for and against.

Your fairly confident because you want scripture to back up your existing prejudice and hatred.

Just looked up Jackie Angel. Found a video where she talked about how if someone asks you to attend their same sex marriage, you should lecture them on why homosexuality is wrong. What a vile woman. She also talks about it with a woman who ma's married to another woman until her homophobic mother pressured her to end the relationship. So I see how she would appeal to you given the "values" you pass down to your own daughter.

@crwnhgow thank you - heroic of you to put yourself through that.

No matter how they dress it up, religious hardliners are all vile homophobes.

I'm fairly confident that it's just the evolution of language, I wouldn't read anything else into it.

Yeah don't bother looking further into the source of your homophobia.

I am not Christian. However I am very interested in religion and ancient history, as well as languages, so have an interest in this from a hermeneutical viewpoint.

I believe context is everything. Much as a large part of archaeology is where the item is found, sometimes more important than what the item is, I think the context of the time as well as subject of the "big 6" biblical passages is very important. Also, the original NT part was written in a combination of languages, including Aramaic, Hebrew, and Hellenistic Greek (I studied the latter as part of my degree) It has therefore been subject to translations through time, even the Catholic version a pp referred to. The Vulgate was translated from the original languages into Latin and therefore it is entirely possible, if not highly probable, that some nuances have been lost along the way.

Also, let's not pretend that those who transcribed the NT, and those who ordered it translated, did not have an agenda and therefore this may well have influenced how words were translated. After all, if you wish people to follow idea x, and the translator said a word could mean y or z, but z supported idea x better, you wouldn't pick meaning y.

These resources explain things probably in a clearer way than I do, although some may say they're biased, but what sources aren't biased?

I could go on about this for ages (the word pederasty being translated to homosexuality for one) but will be quiet now 😁

Just one final thought, if God is all loving, omniscient, and a kind god, why would He/She not want people to experience love, whoever it is from, providing no one is harmed. Is it not said that God is Love?

www.hrc.org/resources/what-does-the-bible-say-about-homosexuality

theconversation.com/a-thousand-years-ago-the-catholic-church-paid-little-attention-to-homosexuality-112830

blog.smu.edu/ot8317/2019/04/11/lost-in-translation-alternative-meaning-in-leviticus-1822/

@Athenajm80 very well put. 👏

Fabulous that gay people are able to get married then isn't it!

I was looking for a thread about Sandi Toksvig's open letter to the Archbishop of Canterbury (he since invited her to coffee to discuss) and found this one which is close...what do you think?

twitter.com/sanditoksvig/status/1554948904881381377?t=CEYRi5dbBj1yThIIzI7CXg&s=19

Disclaimer: I'm a hardline atheist and straight. I think if the CofE must exist, it must include everybody, regardless of whom they love.

Yes I'm sure @MaryChild is delighted about that.

@Shasha28 I have found the Living out website and especially the podcasts very helpful. People to be loved by Preston Sprinkle is a book that goes deeply into all the issues but is quite easy to read. I don't know if this applies to you, but if you've made (or are thinking about) a decision to remain single then Singleminded by Kate Wharton is a great book.

So gay prople are fine as long as they never have sex, hmm.

Why would you think OP would want to remain single?

Or marry someone of the opposite sex like the gay man on front page of that website.