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Philosophy/religion

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Anglican feeling called to become Catholic

126 replies

Olinguita · 05/07/2022 10:26

Cradle Anglican here. I've been feeling increasingly drawn to Roman Catholicism for the past two years. For background, I was educated at a Roman Catholic convent and it's only recently that I've realized how deep an impression it left on me. I love the Virgin Mary, the sacraments, the liturgy, Ignatian spirituality and the sense of being part of a global church. I've been sneaking into Catholic churches for mass for the past two years and it has given me a sense of being in the presence of God in a way that I don't feel in my middle of the road Anglican church. I'm struggling with the blobbiness and lack of mystery and contemplation in the Anglican church, and I have had thid general sense of not quite fitting in for a long time, and I struggle to articulate why. Weirdly when I go into a Catholic church it just feels like home. I did an online course on Catholic Social Teaching last summer and it blew my mind - there was so much that I agreed with in terms of economic justice and I really enjoyed debating big, tricky social issues with the other participants.
Here's the kicker - I'm politically left(ish) and feminist, and a lot of my inner circle of friends are gay or bi, so if I really am being called to Catholicism it is kind of tricky/inconvenient...and would cause a lot of upset and division among my friends and family. My family are super devout Anglicans and I just baptised my son a few weeks back with a big family celebration. I struggle with the teaching on abortion in particular and it is obviously a hot button issue right now. I personally wouldn't get an abortion unless my life was in danger but I'm profoundly uncomfortable with the idea of it being illegal. I also have no interest in judging or condemning friends who have had terminations. I think they were doing the best they could at the time.
Any Catholics out there who can advise, of folks who have converted to Catholicism? I really feel that converting would bring me deep joy and purpose but also wondering if I should "stay in my lane" and try to make the best of being Anglican. Thanks for reading to the end!

OP posts:
Toddlerteaplease · 10/07/2022 20:00

Fortunately my parish is a cathedral. We do not have a band. Any other instrument played other than the organ is an anthema to me. 🤣 And if the congregation can still be seen from the sanctuary then I need to put more incense in the thurible.

SpaghettiNotCourgetti · 10/07/2022 20:10

Toddlerteaplease · 10/07/2022 19:50

@SpaghettiNotCourgetti I adore choral evensong! Especially at York Minster. Still love the BCP, and Anglican chant. That's one thing the Catholic Church doesn't do as well. Choral vespers just isn't the same!

I wrote my undergrad dissertation on Anglican chant Grin I miss it so much. Responsorial psalms are charming, but I love the pointing and structure in Anglican chant, and it's so beautiful when it's done well!

We used to go to a much more 'smells and bells' church, and got married there, but started going to a more local, much more friendly place just before our older DD came along. I preferred the music at the first place, but I feel part of the community at the second. It's much more child-friendly, for a start, and when you see fellow worshippers out and about, they don't totally blank you. But then, the first church was in quite an up-itself town, sadly.

VeryQuaintIrene · 10/07/2022 22:34

We sang chant this morning at the cathedral where I sing. Tell us more about your dissertation, @SpaghettiNotCourgetti !

Ravenclawdropout · 11/07/2022 01:50

I believe chant came from the Catholic Church, unfortunately in England because Catholics lost their civil rights for 300 yrs and it was illegal to build any new Churches (as obviously all the ancient Cathedrals and churches became Anglican) or ordain new Priests it meant the CC was basically underground or very subdued and discreet. In England the Church was unable to express itself publicly. Today Catholic Monasteries and convents in the UK still use chant while praying the office up to 7 times a day.

Here are some English nuns praying using chant at St Cecelia's Abbey.

Ravenclawdropout · 11/07/2022 01:53

St Cecelia's Abbey, Benedictine nuns on the Isle of Wight
stceciliasabbey.org.uk/

Penfelyn · 11/07/2022 02:14

Hello OP,

I'm not religious so can't advise much but in your place, I would talk to a catholic priest ? Not just one actually, I'd talk to a few. See if they have any insight.

Toddlerteaplease · 11/07/2022 14:38

@SpaghettiNotCourgetti yes, please tell us. Apologies OP for high jacking your thread. If I ever name change on Mumsnet I always thought I'd change it too. "In quires and places where they sing"

SpaghettiNotCourgetti · 11/07/2022 19:56

@VeryQuaintIrene @Toddlerteaplease It was about speech rhythms and Anglican chant pointing - specifically, whether it's accurate or not, and whether it makes the words of the psalms more or less intelligible from a word-stress point of view. It was really fun if you're a TOTAL nerd! I was interested in the interactions between aspects of the music and the indications of the pointing, and I had an unwitting accomplice in somebody who'd kind of re-pointed them to fit chants of their own composition. Unfortunately, I could NEVER have told them about it all because their re-pointing, it turned out, did NOT aid comprehensibility in any way!

VeryQuaintIrene · 12/07/2022 13:48

Thanks, @SpaghettiNotCourgetti - I love that kind of thing!

Fink · 12/07/2022 14:41

First thing I would say is to start the process of becoming Catholic doesn't commit you to anything. So you can do the whole RCIA course (either individually or in a group, depending on what your parish does) and there's absolutely no pressure to be confirmed as a Catholic at the end of it. It's a great way to have a decent space for all your questions and thoughts. I think it's very healthy to come along while you're still considering it and have doubts, some people want to have everything 100% sorted in their heads before beginning the course, but that's exactly what the course is there for: to help you reflect and work out where you stand.

Secondly, I've found over the years (cradle Catholic although I've experimented with various other denominations in my youth, now work for the Church) that a lot of the moral issues, especially the ones that are counter-cultural around chastity and sexuality for example, made sense from the inside once I chose to live them, but not when it's an intellectual argument in my head. So I used to contracept and couldn't see what the problem was with it, but eventually decided to accept Church teaching and use NFP, without really being convinced that it was the right thing. But then once I was using NFP, I saw what a difference it made in my life and relationship with my husband (which still, unfortunately, fell apart, but not because of that) and became convinced of the wisdom of the teaching.

And thirdly, some of the social issues may not be as big a deal as you think. We spend a lot more time thinking about the Trinity than we do about other people's sex lives! As you saw from the CST formation, the Church can be quite 'left wing' (although it wouldn't fit into the terminology of left and right as it's used in everyday speech, with 'left' being used to mean 'socially liberal'), certainly economically and on a lot of issues. On an everyday level, even most Catholics who are fully signed up to Church doctrine on every issue (which is by no means most practising Catholics) wouldn't pressure people who aren't Catholic to follow Catholic teaching, e.g. you would be hard pressed in the UK to find anyone who would have anything much to say about a gay relationship between two non-Catholics. Obviously it's different for people who are Catholic, and then there's a lot more diversity of opinion. With abortion, I don't know anyone who would judge a friend, or even a stranger, who had had a termination. Even quite stauchly pro-life people know that it's often a near-impossible decision to have to make and have every sympathy for women who find themselves faced with it. There's a lot of training for priests and people who work in the Church in pastoral ministry, every conversation is personal and considers the individual circumstances. Personally, I like the fact that the Catholic Church has very clear teaching on a lot of issues, but it is always balanced with a pastoral sensitivity for the case in hand. That's why some people are moral theologians and different people are parish priests, it's not the same skill set at all!

Olinguita · 18/07/2022 16:16

Ethelswith · 09/07/2022 19:14

Oh, and do read 'How Far Can You Go?' by David Lodge (and maybe also 'The British Museum is Falling Down') as a core theme is how a group of catholics (cradle and convert) see their faith around the time of Vatican II. I know that sounds arid, but they're funny and moving books, and will give insights into the questions on your mind at the moment.

Thanks for the recommendations! Actually I read both these novels last year and really enjoyed them. They were very entertaining and moving

OP posts:
Olinguita · 18/07/2022 16:19

Ravenclawdropout · 09/07/2022 18:54

@Olinguita I was an atheist/agnostic who after a profound encounter with God became Catholic at 19 (many moons ago!). I grew up in an intellectual, loving secular household so it was quite a radical culture change. However, Catholicism haa a strong intellectual tradition as Catholics believe all truth comes from God, thats why there are so many Catholic schools and universities. A Catholic priest who was a physics professor came up with the BIg Bang theory. But my reason for conversion was the love of God and his invitation to draw close within the Church.

I would just like to say the average practicing Catholic is not judgemntal or condemning of women who have an abortion. The majority are very compassionate and understanding and are very aware of the dilemmas facing women especially those with unsupportive or even abusive relationships with the father of the child. Catholics are found in every walk of life and have founded and staffed hospitals, medical clinics, social service organizations, orphanages, services for refugees etc. The Catholic church is the organization that educates the most people worldwide and probably also that would be the case with social services. Catholics work with the poorest of the poor, including refugees and the displaced. We are everywhere. I remenber watching news coverage of the tsunami on Boxing Day about 12 yrs ago that hit an asian nation and while the NGOs were rushing in to help, Catholics were already there and had been there for decades serving the modest fishing communities.

Our parish is involved in prison ministry where the whole parish supports and helps a prisoner and his/her family for 2+ years after release from prison. We are helping a man now and his divorced wife and their teenage daughters as he reenters society.

If you would like to chat more about your questions on this thread or via DM please do. There are a lot of amazing Catholic women on MN.

Thanks for your reply!
It's this kind of hands-on, practical, un-flashy charitable and community work that I just love about the Catholic church. Sounds like you have had a really interesting faith journey and I may PM you with some questions!

OP posts:
Olinguita · 18/07/2022 16:27

Fink · 12/07/2022 14:41

First thing I would say is to start the process of becoming Catholic doesn't commit you to anything. So you can do the whole RCIA course (either individually or in a group, depending on what your parish does) and there's absolutely no pressure to be confirmed as a Catholic at the end of it. It's a great way to have a decent space for all your questions and thoughts. I think it's very healthy to come along while you're still considering it and have doubts, some people want to have everything 100% sorted in their heads before beginning the course, but that's exactly what the course is there for: to help you reflect and work out where you stand.

Secondly, I've found over the years (cradle Catholic although I've experimented with various other denominations in my youth, now work for the Church) that a lot of the moral issues, especially the ones that are counter-cultural around chastity and sexuality for example, made sense from the inside once I chose to live them, but not when it's an intellectual argument in my head. So I used to contracept and couldn't see what the problem was with it, but eventually decided to accept Church teaching and use NFP, without really being convinced that it was the right thing. But then once I was using NFP, I saw what a difference it made in my life and relationship with my husband (which still, unfortunately, fell apart, but not because of that) and became convinced of the wisdom of the teaching.

And thirdly, some of the social issues may not be as big a deal as you think. We spend a lot more time thinking about the Trinity than we do about other people's sex lives! As you saw from the CST formation, the Church can be quite 'left wing' (although it wouldn't fit into the terminology of left and right as it's used in everyday speech, with 'left' being used to mean 'socially liberal'), certainly economically and on a lot of issues. On an everyday level, even most Catholics who are fully signed up to Church doctrine on every issue (which is by no means most practising Catholics) wouldn't pressure people who aren't Catholic to follow Catholic teaching, e.g. you would be hard pressed in the UK to find anyone who would have anything much to say about a gay relationship between two non-Catholics. Obviously it's different for people who are Catholic, and then there's a lot more diversity of opinion. With abortion, I don't know anyone who would judge a friend, or even a stranger, who had had a termination. Even quite stauchly pro-life people know that it's often a near-impossible decision to have to make and have every sympathy for women who find themselves faced with it. There's a lot of training for priests and people who work in the Church in pastoral ministry, every conversation is personal and considers the individual circumstances. Personally, I like the fact that the Catholic Church has very clear teaching on a lot of issues, but it is always balanced with a pastoral sensitivity for the case in hand. That's why some people are moral theologians and different people are parish priests, it's not the same skill set at all!

This is really reassuring, thank you! And yay for spending more time thinking about the Trinity than other people's sex lives. I can totally get on board with that!
I actually think there is a lot of wisdom in NFP. I'm not sure if I could practice it myself but equally I don't think I will ever use hormonal contraception again for a whole range of reasons.- it doesn't agree with me , gives me mood swings and makes me feel like a stranger to my own body. I don't think contraception is morally wrong but I think pushing the Pill on women as a one-size-fits-all option from a young age is bad, and in that sense I believe the Catholic Church is on to something...

OP posts:
Olinguita · 18/07/2022 16:31

Toddlerteaplease · 11/07/2022 14:38

@SpaghettiNotCourgetti yes, please tell us. Apologies OP for high jacking your thread. If I ever name change on Mumsnet I always thought I'd change it too. "In quires and places where they sing"

No need to apologize, I am thoroughly enjoying the direction this discussion is taking, @SpaghettiNotCourgetti @VeryQuaintIrene
I have to say, you can't beat a good choral evensong in the CofE! That is one thing we do very well and would miss. But I guess if I were to cross the Tiber so to speak there's nothing to stop me popping in for my occasional fix at a cathedral or high Anglican church with a strong choral tradition

OP posts:
Toddlerteaplease · 18/07/2022 16:56

Absolutely not. I always pop in for my evensong fix whenever I'm in a cathedral city.

Toddlerteaplease · 18/07/2022 17:00

Don't worry to much about not agreeing with everything the church teaches. I certainly don't. And it's not an issue. A priest also won't refuse you communion if you put your hands out.

Ravenclawdropout · 19/07/2022 19:05

@Olinguita this is a great interview with Scotsman Magus MacFarlane-Barrow who was inspired with his brother over a pint at the age of 24 to take aid to refugees of the Balkan wars in the early 90s. Their one truckload of aid given by local people, gradually grew into the ministry called Mary's Meals that 30 years later feeds 2 million children a day. Magus still works out of the shed he borrowed from his dad 30 years ago.

Jamepume · 19/07/2022 19:12

The Catholic culture is lovely and very appealing. I love the rituals etc. However don’t mistake it for something more. Join in if you want, it’s a great way to mark the year and create purpose and ritual. However, I suspect that if you are looking to join a more regimented church as you need to commit more, and need more rules, that what you have truly realised is that it’s all bollocks and need more guidance. No advice really.

summerycup · 19/07/2022 19:34

My sister and I were raised Anglican. She married a Catholic and started going to mass with him, helping at Sunday school. Very community minded. It was brought to her attention that a few parishioners commented on her not taking the Eucharist so the priest suggested she might want to convert. Then he found she was was previously divorced and refused. This is despite him being in a (self confessed) intimate relationship with another man and giving communion to other divorced catholics who haven't had annulments. So the church community lost the whole family and other friends who supported them. I wouldn't want to belong to a church like that.

Toddlerteaplease · 19/07/2022 21:09

@summerycup I really don't understand why priests do that. I don't know any that would. I can't imagine a priest admitting to breaking his vow of celibacy. I'm sure it does happen but I can't imagine it's made public.

pinkyorange · 19/07/2022 21:41

It's a local village church, he's priest there and another local village. Both very wealthy
parishes. Father David gets invited to a lot of parties. He enjoys a drink and he's an extrovert.

pinkyorange · 19/07/2022 21:42

I'm @summerycup too

sleepyhoglet · 19/07/2022 21:51

Namenic · 05/07/2022 10:53

just to add - there are Anglo-Catholic/high Anglican churches which are similar in liturgy to Roman Catholic Churches. I believe both anglicans and RCs have a yearly pilgrimage to Walsingham (I think the shrines are in different places and they are in different days) - but you might find either of these helpful. I’m neither high church nor RC but wish you blessings on your spiritual journey!

This. I think you are probably high anglican by the sounds of things.

Toddlerteaplease · 19/07/2022 21:52

pinkyorange · 19/07/2022 21:41

It's a local village church, he's priest there and another local village. Both very wealthy
parishes. Father David gets invited to a lot of parties. He enjoys a drink and he's an extrovert.

As are many priests! The bishop would take a very dim view of a priest in a public relationship. He's have to be laicised.

sleepyhoglet · 19/07/2022 21:59

@pinkyorange are you also refering the priest in a same sex relationship or something different?! I've completely lost track

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