Validity of marriage in a religious sense, not a legal one

[newtb]

I got married in the CofE in 1977, in England. I am now divorced and xh proudly told me that he'd lied when making his vows to destroy me, as Charles did to Diana. His words.

At the time we were married, I was on the electoral roll of 2 churches, the one where I got married at 'home' and the one I attended when at university, and it was this vicar who married us.

We originally intended to get married in my university church, and giving the Rector all the details of parents etc, for the banns, he asked me where DH was Christened, and I didn't know. Visiting my 'home' vicar to give him the same information, I offered the name of the church where I was Christened, and he said he didn't need to know.

In fact, as I later found out, DH was never Christened. I cannot ask the Rector who performed the marriage as he is now dead. I've been wondering about applying for an annulment in the CofE on the grounds that, if the priest who married us had known that XH/DH wasn't Christened, he would have refused to marry us.

Stupid, I know, but it's the fraud and dishonesty aspect of it that sticks in my throat, as does his rant of "You forced me to get married in the fucking Church of England" that killed the last bit of love I'd felt for him, for better and for worse over the years.

The marriage was in England, so it was the Established church, and the vicar or the visiting priest was a surrogate for marriage licences, so it was a legal civil marriage, just wondering if under Canon Law it would be considered a valid one, or not.

I thought that ultimately it was the vicar's call, and once they married you it was valid. But that can't be the case for eg incest so I'm intrigued.

Your marriage was valid. Even if it wasn’t, you’re divorced now so it’s irrelevant.

I can’t remember the details of what makes a marriage void or voidable, other than bigamy, false identity, close relationship, mistake or coercion but i’ll look it up and post a link.

Hmm it seems even in the Catholic church only one of you has to be baptised for the marriage to be valid. I doubt there arexreally grounds for annulment.

Ultimately you made the decision that seemed right at the time, and so did he. He made a grown up choice that he is now screaming about like a toddler, but he's not your problem any more. Tidings of joy there.

Sorry, just realised you weren’t looking for advice on legal validity.

My understanding is that Marriage is not a sacrament in the Church of England. You do not need to be baptised or a believer to be married in the Church of England. So, your marriage was valid under Canon Law and cannot be annulled. I would leave your ex husband's soul to his own conscience and the Almighty. The only sacraments in the Anglican Church are baptism and communion. The "having to get married in church" came in quite late ( I think 18th Century) and was brought in by Parliament to clamp down on grooming/bigamy/forced and child marriages. Just as the 20th century government farmed out tax collecting to employers via PAYE,the 18th century government farmed out regulation of marriage to the Church because it had lots of local offices {!},reliable people to keep records & central regulatory bodies.

I'm not a canon lawyer.

It used to be the case that a CofE wedding required that the bride and groom were baptised. This is no longer the case. I've had a look online and I can't see when that changed.

Even if your ex husband was not baptised it is not possible to annul a C of E marriage. That is something the RC does. If you wanted to marry a RC then you could apply to have your non RC marriage annulled but that would be on the grounds it was non RC and not the lack of baptism.

Rather than stress over whether the marriage was legal or not you are now divorced and it sounds like there is some unfinished business that you need to grieve or work through somehow. It sounds a bit odd but might some sort of divorce rite help which acknowledges what was good in the marriage and the betrayal of the end of it? Or maybe a spiritual director could help you navigate this period of life.

Why do you care?
You are divorced now- so why is any of that stuff important?

CofE are obliged by law to marry all eligible parishioners, irrespective of their baptismal status. It's part of how canon law meets statutory law, and having an established church.

Any marriage can be annulled, but I don't think this is sufficient grounds for annulment. The general area which might apply here is fraud. It might be worth having a chat to the vicar, but I'd be realistic about it. This isn't a void marriage, and your reasons for considering it potentially voidable don't look strong

Thanks for the replies.
Thé sacrements in the Cof E are, as far as I can remember,
Baptism
Mariage
Communion
Extreme unction
Confirmation and
Confession

The exhortation reads that marriage is not to bé taken in hand lightly, wantonly or inadvisedly, and states that for anyone lying when making their vows that their marriage is not lawful. Obviously, the 1837 civil marriages act changed all that.

Not much help but I thought the only sacraments I. The C of E were baptism and communion. I’m no expert though.

I googled this and it looks as if Baptism and Communion are sacraments and the other ceremonies are commonly referred to that way but aren't. See for example wiki, Britannica, CofE website.

I can understand why you would want an annulment OP, it's the principle of the thing.

I’m Catholic - so maybe it’s slightly different. But if you can show your XH lied about being Christened - usually you have to show proof to the priest and also that he didn’t mean his wedding vows then I think you have strong grounds for annulment.

But he didn't lie when making his vows, unless you've omitted something. All you've mentioned is that you didn't know whether he'd been baptised or not, and then later you found out that he wasn't . You don't say that he lied about it. And the priest who married you said he didn't need to know anyway. And you're divorced now so move on .

Ex husbands say nasty things to get under our skin - mine told our kids that he "probably wasn't their father" so I do know how angry exes can make you feel, but this thing about lying when making the vows makes no sense at all.

I'm not baptised but my husband is, he is also confirmed.

We married in the Church of England and the vicar knew I wasn't baptised (huge blank marks under church where baptised / confirmed were a giveaway)

The vicar never mentioned anything about it or that it was an issue.

Basically, he decided to destroy me the day we met, as was jealous of everything I could do, and was a very talented manipulator. He began by cutting me off from my schoolfriends saying they were too young for him. He was 7 years older, but only 4 years ahead exam-wise, but my friends would've been far too intelligent for him, and he knew it.

I do t think the C of E does annulments in the same way the RC church does.