Dedication vs Christening

[PurpleLostPrincess]

Hello all, I've been a regular mn'er for about a year now but have never posted in this area (only just found it!).

Its a bit of a long story so I'll keep it short but I'm a born again christian whereas DH is what I call a 'not yet christian' as he is still yet to take the plunge as such but God has done some amazing things in his life and he will openly admit that.

We had our first baby together early September and we've had a rough road - she has had 2 operations so far including heart surgery and has 2 more to come. My church family have all been very supportive and have been praying loads for us all.

Anyway, this is my second marriage and my xh was very anti-church. He wanted a christening and I wanted a dedication for DS and DD1 so we decided not to do anything at all so there was no argument. (of course, we don't need a ceremony to dedicate our children and both of them were prayed for and dedicated anyway by my parents, just not publicly!). DH (now) is aware of this and conversations early on indicated that this would be the case with DD2. However, I asked a few weeks ago if he would mind me having her 'officially' dedicated and he said he would think about it.

Well, yesterday, one of our friends asked him if she could be a godparent if we have her christened. I asked if he had explained that we might not have her christened and he now feels he would like her to be christened. I really don't want to get into a tug of war over this as it would be petty and childish. However, I have a problem with the ritual nature of a christening and the reasonings behind it (no offence to anybody else, its just my opinion) and feel that if we have her christened, we should also have her dedicated 'officially'.

I might add that I prayed over her when she was 2 days old and dedicated her myself, not knowing that she was actually very ill and was rushed to hospital the very next day - isn't God amazing!

I've not explained this very well at all so I hope you're able to read between the lines! I'd just value any advice on how to handle this one maturely and how to do what is best for all, especially DD2. Also, does anybody know more about the role of 'godparents' when its a dedication and whether it makes a difference if they are christians or not?

Thanks in advance,

PLP xxx

It's sounds like you've got an awful lot going on and that any decision on what to do and when is something not that important at the moment. Does your DH know that you believe that your dd would be going to heaven if she died (sorry that is so morbid) because she is not of an age where she could choose for herself? do you think he wants the security of thinking/believing that?

Remember to post on the prayer thread so that all the regulars prayer for you for her next operation. (it's the one that usually has 100's of replies and takes hours to read by the end of the month)

Thats a good idea ppb, I might explore that idea with DH. When DD2 has had all her operations, we could all celebrate her getting better in the way you have described and have a sort of dedication at the same time maybe.

Thank you!

I guess I've assumed that he knows that because we've discussed many aspects of my beliefs up to now but its worth me mentioning it to make sure, regardless of whatever decision we come to in the future.

Thanks CarGirl, I'll go look for that in a while - she's waking up for a feed now

No probs, I hope your little one gets better soon.

I hope she gets better soon too. Will remember her and your whole family in my prayers...

No offence taken, although I SHOULD mention I used to be a Catholic as well... , in fact, one of the "good" things about being a Catholic is that I developed a good prayer life, as do many Catholics. Many prayers have been said for 100s of years precisely because they mean something to the people that were saying them. And now, I'm no longer a Catholic, I also read my bible

The other thing to bear in mind is that people like your grandmother were of a different generation, where showing feelings, even feelings for God "just wasn't done". I've led study groups with members of all generations, and its amazing how God is viewed by different generations.

I think its really good the stuff that's coming out on this thread. I hope you don't feel I'm hijacking it.

The only other thing I'd say, like you say, its amazing the difference God makes in people's lives. Its not always been like this for me, and tbh I find it a little scary sometimes, but it does show how God can take the most unlikely of people and lift them up. In fact, the bible is full of him doing just that!

I guess my take on this is simple- it doesn't matter. If you make your decision beleiving you are doing your best to bring your daughter up in the love of god, He is unoikely to care less what aprticular services you do (or do not) hold for her at this stage. God and jesus are kind, loving and acceptiong and imo simply ask that we do our best.

The name of service is the least inportant in this, perhaps? Comapred to all the love, hope and dediation raising a child takes. Especially one with additional needs like yours.

MAry- how wonderful you found thata rticle! As ign I am sure . Glad to see you on here as well- I wanted to tell you I spoke to my tutor and he is happy to baptise myself, DS3 and the new baby togetehr in the Spring- yay! I was worried how he would accept DS3 as he is big on understanding the anture of the service and ds3 probably never will, so was very happy indeed.

Hiya, not read the replies yet, so here is my first thoughts response.

My first daughter was Dedicated by Mum because she was born alive at 20 weeks and we new we were comforting her in her death. My second daughter (Tink) was Dedicated in Church because a. we could, which we couldn't with Lily-Hope, and b. we wanted to publically thank God because of everything we had been through with getting to that point (Lily-Hope and then Tink was born at 31 weeks).

We also had someone pretty much tell us they were going to be godmother and sulk because I don't believe in christening.

Now, I'm not going to change my beliefs for anyone especially not when I understand both sides better than they understand their own side. TinksDad would have gone with christening, but he didn't really believe in it and before I met him he hadn't even been to church since he'd left BB about 15 years before.

We spoke to each other and with our Pastor and we decided we would have godparents. Dedications don't ask anyone to make promises they can't keep, you promise to look after the child and bring them up right and the godparents promise to support you and take a special interest in the child.

It is something to discuss with your minister, it will depend on what they think, but it is part of the Dedication service and I've known a few ministers do it.

This is what hppened with us:

Dh and I had both been christened as infants and became CHristiand ourselves in our teens. When we finallywere having kids ourselves we realised that we didnt want them to be in the situation we were in - having been christened, but wanting to be baptised as believers, but not knowing if we could or how to go about it if we did! So we looked into dedication but our vicar at the time was very much 'infant baptism or nothing', so there wasn't much of an option - we went for the nothing.

3 kids later we moved several hundred miles, and started going to a big-city baptist church rather than the little Anglican church we had come from. After a few months we approached the pastor about baptism, and they agreed with us that our own infant baptisms didnt count, that we had to be baptised as believers ourselves, which is what we wanted. And they offered to dedicate our children at the same time.

So we had a fab Sunday morning, where our children were dedicated (and it was a marvellous feeling to stand up in front of the church and see them all standing in partnership with us as we bring up our kids).

Then in the same service dh and I were baptised, with our kids sitting on the edge of the baptistry and all the church kids gathered round. It was an amazing service, I'll never forget it. And our kids have the chance to choose themselves when they are older and I pray they will be CHristians themselves.

The whole point I think is whatever you do, it should be as part of a church family. Going to another church for one ceremony would be weird to me. Sounds like your dh just doesn't know. If he's not yet a CHristian, could he make the promises that he would be asked to make?

Got some time to read through the thread and answer now.

Astrophe I agree with you that neither guarantees salvation, but one is pitched that way, sadly. But I don?t agree that the faith of the parents saves the child, Jesus often spoke about children and Heaven, it makes it clear that Heaven is for children and those who would be like children. The most obvious example of course is:

Matthew 19:13-15 (New King James Version)

Jesus Blesses Little Children

13 Then little children were brought to Him that He might put His hands on them and pray, but the disciples rebuked them.
14 But Jesus said, ?Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.?
15 And He laid His hands on them and departed from there.

I ROFL reading about adult confirmation. Some people don?t read their Bible do they? That just defeats the point really. It is a shame that this is being taught to people by those who supposedly should know better, who have been to Bible College. But then I guess they are being taught what their teachers want them to believe and not learning to read for themselves. Very sad.

PLP, it seems crazy to go to a different Church to do something you don?t believe in just to appease people who don?t have the same Faith you do when you probably understand both services better they understand the one they want you to do! (IYSWIM)

What you have said about the more ?formal? churches is so right, IMO. I have this discussion with Dad all the time. I don?t see how you can have a personal relationship when you have to do ABC. You don?t have a ritual for your relationship with your earthly dad, why should we have rituals for our relationship with our real Dad?

My brother is Aspergers too (as are most of the eldest sons in our family) and we have always attended a none-formal church (don?t know how else to put that). I don?t believe that it has affected my brothers Faith in anyway, just when you least expect it he will say something quite amazing. In fact, God has put a prophecy on his life that he will be a mighty man of God like Reinhard Bonnke.

I would be interested to see a Biblical justification of christening, as of yet no one has been able to provide one that stands up to The Bible.

Having never used prayers that are already written, I don?t understand why. They can be very poetic, but do we need flowers to talk to God? He knows our heart and if we just say what?s in it He understands. One or two words mean more than a whole poem someone else wrote. People should be taught to feel confident in their own Faith and not have to use someone else?s words.

BTW, I know not all churches are like that, but the ones I have been to are and they are the rule, not the exception. My one granddad is a FCoE minister and it?s shocked me how little he knows his Bible and that he doesn?t seem to have any understanding of a personal relationship. My other granddad took my daughters funeral and we asked my granddad to pray. He brought a dusty, old brown (aged) book with him and read from that. I appreciated him taking part, but I felt sad for him that that was all he knew, to read from a book.

Sorry my previous post was so long, I'll keep this one short. I thought this link may be helpful

TBF, there is plenty of support for Infant Baptism. It's part of the fullness of faith passed down from Jesus, the Apostles, and the Eerly Church Fathers.

TBM a biased article, do you have one with a more balanced view?

I suggest if people want to debate the merits or otherwise of infant baptism, another thread is started, rather than derail this thread for PLP. Alternatively, go and debate with the "big boys and girls" on the Ship of Fools Christian website, where there are a HUGE amount of learned people willing to argue one way or the other, with far greater collective biblical knowledge than anyone on MN.

I've always refused to get into such a debate. I am happy I am validly baptised. I prayed for a clear sign I should have my children baptised, and it was SO clear, that I have never been in any doubt that what I did was right in the eyes of the Lord.

Agree totally, Mary.

Baptism is a complcated topic, and there are compelling arguments on both sides. The best thing is to approach the dilemma prayerfully.

There is another thread.

I can accept that I only just start on understanding of The Bible but I have some good teachers. A Christian scientist (someone who studies The Bible in the original text and studies it from a science background, amazing how much science does support The Bible) for an uncle, who I lived with for a long time and have spent a lot of time discussing things with and both my granddads are ministers, the one it is the only time we really get talking is about The Bible. Plus I study for myself, especially on certain topics that interest me. I'd put either one of them into a discussion on most things Biblical anyday.

I think it's great that you do what you think is best for your children, it's all anyone can ask. If you want to share more of your beliefs on the other thread, I would be interested to see.

The article may be "biased" but it is what my denomination believes and obviously that of PLP. I felt that it is a good article for her to help explain to her husband why she feels that this is the way to go.

I'm not sure what to say apart from a big thank you to all of you for your input - you've given me lots of food for thought...

PLP xxx

Not trying to have the last word, PLP, honest, but just found the thread. It's a personal issue for me too.

I would go for dedication if I were you, dress it up with as much or as little godparents/feasting/fun and games as you like.

I was infant baptised and confirmed in the Cof E. Since becoming a born again Christian in my teens I have been struggling to work out whether I'm already baptised properly or need to be baptised again as an adult believer (I haven't although it has barred me from membership/leadership in some Baptist churches I've attended).

IME you might do your DD a favour by sparing her that confusion in later life, whether she comes to her own faith or not!

If you study the original Greek, TBM, you'll see that it clearly supports infant baptism

TBM - I re-read what I put and want to apologise if I seemed a bit "off".

I would still recommend the "ship of fools" website though for serious (and not so serious) debate

PLP, I hope it has helped.

Actually I was reading the Book of Common Prayer (the CofE prayer book) last night and read the words of the infant baptism service, and was amazed by the depth of theology in there, and the prayers for the "wee 'un" (as my scottish dh calls them!) - profound, prophetic prayers to pray for a baby. We had our two dedicated, as it happens, and we wrote our own prayers for the service, (at our CofE either dedication or baptism is equally offered and the vicar doesn't mind either way) but I'd say that the baptism service is powerful stuff too!

Hi,

My DD is 9 months old and we're broaching this topic. DH and I are sure that we want DD to have a dedication ceremony, but we just don't really want all the folks down for a parrrrtay as family christenings have tended to go (admittedly partly cos I hate organising such things ) , the wedding was bad enough !

Anyone had a baby dedication/christening and not had a family do afterwards?

Another idea is that we may have the dedication on DD's first birthday, Lord willing, so that would kinda kill two birds with one stone...

sorry whats the difference between a baptism and a dedication?

There is a difference in what Christians believe about baptism.

Some believe that you baptise infants with water in order to welcome them into the church. Others believe that baptism (either by sprinkling water or by total immersion in water) is for those who have made a faith commitment themselves and is therefore not for children who cant understand the consequences of that for themselves yet.

So some churches do infant baptism, some do infant dedication, others do both, let the parents choose. Ours is a baptist church, we only baptise adults, and dedicate children. Many others do things in different ways - I believe that some of the Eastern Orthodox CHurches (Greece/Russia) actually baptise infants by full immersion, but I might be wrong with that and am willing to stand corrected!

oooh i wish i'd known about dedications. is it only baptist/pentecostal type churches that do them or do c of e and catholic churches do it too?

Some c of e churches do them, but I wouldn't have though Catholic ones would - completely different theology.

our church is a c of e church but when i asked about baptism i wasn't told about the choice of a dedication. what exactly happens at a dedication?