Regular church attenders - at what age do your children get to CHOOSE whether or not they come?

[roisin]

At my home church and in some other churches I've been in the 'usual' age has been about 11 or 12 when children are given the option by their parents whether or not to attend.

In our present church in the past 5 years the age has been 14, 15, or 16 from different families! I don't feel entirely comfortable with 'making' a child attend to this age.

Anyway ds1 is 10 - too young still yet to be allowed to stay home alone. But he is not a christian, he is an atheist, and has been consistently for about 7 years! Very occasionally he professes some slight belief, but not much and not for long. He also says he hates church, hates Sunday School, and doesn't see why he has to go and all his mates get to have a long lie-in.

He often plays-up at Sunday school too, and is a complete pain in the neck for the poor teachers. (It doesn't help that they are fairly right-wing, and ds1 is liable to question the statements they make.)

Obviously ds1 gets bollocked by me whenever specific incidents are reported to me.

Aaarrgghhh.... What to do for the best?

ROFL at busybusymummy! If the congregation wobble at the thought of the minister's son reading during the service I dread to think of the reaction if thwey discovered that the minister's wife and son were attending a different church!

It is always harder to ministers' children. They have so much to live up to, and so many eyes on them.

My first approach would be to look for something that he could do, ie a role for him to play. Could be audio-visuals say, or something practical. Moving him up a class might also help and probably can't hurt, especially if he is the only person in the year. If it is done well then the next class (covering Yr7+ I guess) would allow for a lot more exploration and discussion.

In terms of what age he doesn't have to come at all - I guess this would tie with the age that you were happy to leave him at home for that time. That said, I do think that it can be valuable for a young person to be involved in an all-age community, and if he is keen to drop out of church then I might be tempted to persuade/require him to find an alternative community "group" to belong too. Really depends on his character and interests as to what that might be: drama group, sports club, political party...

my kids were 13 when they didn't want to go and i couldn't make them. if your dh is the minishet and he can't stay at home - isn't there something like a baptist vestry equivelant or a room where he could go?

I wonder what we will do if this happens to us.

I would say about 12 but I would not want to force a child to go to church if they did not want to and would feel this was sending a very unChristian message.

I agree about finding him something alternative to do, although appreciate that on a Sunday that would not be easy, otherwise can he not visit someone.

Funnily enough my dh was an athesit when I met him and he said he remembers clearly deciding at about the age of 3 that God did not exist. He did some experiment where he ran quickly down the stairs and looked back and didn't see God. On the basis of this 3 year old logic he decided God didn't exist and nothing changed his mind for the next 30 years.

When I met him (aged 33) he had receently had a private and quite sudden conversion. Now he belives God though he doesn't attend any particular church and describes himslef currently as a theist but not necessarily a Christian.

In reply to the OP I would let him read whatever he wants quietly at the back of the church or somewhere discreet.

Interesting one.

In Catholic churches the children are generally much more involved in the actual Mass (the grownup stuff!) rather than being farmed out to special children's or teenagers' groups -- I do admit to finding that separation thing a bit odd when we've occasionally attended non-Catholic churches with friends.

Dd1 has been an altar server for several years and ds has just started. Next year dd1 will be in the year group to make their confirmation, and will need to make an active commitment to attending and taking part, which I'm sure she will want to do I suspect there's a social/peer pressure element to it as well, though. I certainly wouldn't force her to make her confirmation if she didn't want to, but would make it clear that if she signs up, she has to go along for the whole ride. I do think the involvement thing is key I suspect argumentative little dd1 would be much less likely to react well to Bible class or similar.

Church attendance has never really been an issue with mine, tbh, despite the fact that dh isn't a Catholic and spends Sunday mornings at home reading the papers in peace. The children are in Catholic schools, so going to Mass is what everyone does -- if they have a sleepover at friend's house, it's the same deal. And in any case, they like to see their friends at church, or in dd1's case her former primary school friends.

The drop-out rate for kids from Catholic families seems to be a bit later -- 15+, maybe?

Thanks for all the input. I will monitor the situation, and let you know where we all end up.

Lazycow - I like your story about 30 years of atheism!

Dutchoma: I'm not sure exactly where ds1's convictions came from, but then religious convictions are very personal, aren't they? And what convinces one person will not convince another. Otherwise there would be no need for 'faith'.

But he has always been a deep-thinking, contemplative sort of chap, and also a logical thinker. At the age of 6, he concluded that the existence of Father Christmas was a logical impossibility. (I'm not sure why FC survived longer than God, but there you go!)

He had long discussions with us about the nature of death and eternity, and so on from a very young age. Even when some 'faith' would have comforted him and solved his worries, he declined to take it on board. For instance at the age of 6 he was very distressed for several weeks on the subject of death, and in particular he struggled with the concept that 'at some point in the future I will no longer exist'.

Thanks for all the input. I will monitor the situation, and let you know where we all end up.

Lazycow - I like your story about 30 years of atheism!

Dutchoma: I'm not sure exactly where ds1's convictions came from, but then religious convictions are very personal, aren't they? And what convinces one person will not convince another. Otherwise there would be no need for 'faith'.

But he has always been a deep-thinking, contemplative sort of chap, and also a logical thinker. At the age of 6, he concluded that the existence of Father Christmas was a logical impossibility. (I'm not sure why FC survived longer than God, but there you go!)

He had long discussions with us about the nature of death and eternity, and so on from a very young age. Even when some 'faith' would have comforted him and solved his worries, he declined to take it on board. For instance at the age of 6 he was very distressed for several weeks on the subject of death, and in particular he struggled with the concept that 'at some point in the future I will no longer exist'.

well I was made to go to church and the youth group until I finished highschool and I resented it deeply - I think at about 13/14 they can decide for themselves

Roisin I missed what denomination you were about, but will ask DH. his dad was a baptist minister, but eldest brother I think stopped going to church as soon as possible as he didn't really believe. The parents were quite balanced about it and thought the children should make their own choices, minister's children or not.

I would think, until he's of an age to stay at home safely, he should find something quiet to occupy himself at the service.

10 is a very difficult age as the kids get fed up with "colouring-in" type Sunday school activities, but a lot of more challenging youth-discussion type groups start at age 11. In my previous church we ended up slipping 10-year olds into the youth work to avoid them giving up out of frustration and boredom.

Are there any jobs he could do: do you have a computer for song words for example, that's often within the capabilities of a 10 year old.

I would so love to meet your son. You would have thought the idea of 'eternal life' would appeal to him.
He may not believe in God, but God most certainly will believe in Him and have His own ways of dealing with him.
One of these days he will be overcome by God's majesty and beauty and utter loveliness...if church doesn't get in the way

Dutchoma -

'One of these days he will be overcome by God's majesty and beauty and utter loveliness'

I think my dh would probably say that is exactly what happened to him

Praise the Lord, Lazycow.