Christian prayer and chat thread Open to all

[Dutchoma]

The old thread was nearly full, so here is a new one. Oldies and newbies, chat or prayer, all welcome.

Praying especially for MHD and JanFeb’s daughter.
Also praying for all who are preparing Holy Week/Easter services.

@Becca19962014 the church I went to was similar. They had a day away event where people who were new to the church were all together in a room and if you had the holy spirit then you would fall over backwards. If you didn't have any obvious signs of the holy spirit then you were told that you hadn't fully accepted Jesus. It very much felt like a test or an exam and I had failed.

That sense of failure lasted for a long time after I left that church and it was quite a while before I would step inside another church building. When I did, I stuck to Baptist and CofS because they were what I knew and they felt safe.

You are right MHD, I have met many people since that time who have demonstrated the love of Jesus in different ways. Often, it has been in very quiet ways and by people who would not think much of themselves. They have been inspirational though and I am grateful for that.

@coffeecup88 you are NOT a failure. Trust is something I struggle with hugely, yes even with our Lord. I believe it's something he understands even though I do not. Pray, ask him for guidance. Please don't let your faith be defined by humans, we are all sinners and struggle and get things wrong. God doesn't.

As my nun friend says "even when you don't see God he definitely sees you".

@applesandpears33 I'm sorry you went through something similar.

This is all very interesting, really the kind of conversation I realise I’ve been wanting to have for a long time. I believe suffering is inevitable in life, faith is no protection and illness/ disability/ suffering should never be seen as a moral failing.
My father was a lifelong church goer. He lived abroad in Muslim countries for a long time and in his last post the local Catholic Church was mostly octogenarian Italians. So off he went to the c of e church, which turned out to be quite an evangelical one , not least due to the presence of several American military and diplomatic attaché families. As he was a social animal, he was drawn in by that aspect and on returning to England joined an evangelical church. In his last years he got dementia which was as hideous as dementia gets. He forgot God and even punched the mental health trust chaplain who came to give him communion ( he had no idea what the poor man was trying to do). When it got so bad that he was in hospital and we were told no one would support his return home, I went to the cathedral in floods of tears. I knew no one there, it was just a place to turn to. The cannon simply told me that God had not forgotten my father. No judgement, no “if he had faith / if I had faith” etc etc. It as a relief and I haven’t forgotten that man’s kindness.

whataboutbob That is just what Christian ministry should be like. Suffering is inevitable, as Christians we believe that it will not always be so, that “if we die with Christ, we will alos rise with Him” and this is a comfort when things get tough.

Thank you @Dutchoma

That's it Oma. And the Bible never promises escape from suffering - far from it. Paul's whole theology is one of suffering, of finding God's power in our weakness, of living in the brokenness of the now while seeing the hope in the glimpses of the not yet.

For those who've experienced alpha misused in such horrific ways, please know that those who developed the course would be utterly horrified. Their whole ethos for alpha has always been conversation, listening and gentle introductions to Christianity and the holy spirit. Sadly, certain churches will impose their own power structure upon it and force it into a shape it was not intended for. I've led a lot of alpha courses now and they have been a delight, a place of exploration and honesty, where people are welcome, included and encouraged to question without us as leaders imposing our answers - in fact, alpha encourages leaders to simply listen and to admit we don't always have answers, especially about suffering. I've very much appreciated the holy spirit teaching because it's been a joy to see people encounter God, usually in very gentle yet profound ways, life changing ways sometimes, and again never, ever any kind of suggestion that they can only pass or be proper Christians if they perform in a certain way. I've never heard this tbh and can only surmise it must happen in a very tiny minority of churches, yet sadly has the largest negative impact when taken along with all the other insidious spiritual abuse. I am so sorry it happens.

It's so sad because the holy spirit brings freedom and assurance, and humans bend this to impose power and control. It horrifies me when this happens because I then see how people naturally discount the work of the spirit because of the negative connotations. And that's so sad.

Teaching about these things should never come with conditions and should never come with chaos and confusion. Sometimes there is celebration and that might be different, but when welcoming new people in churches should be so careful and gentle while allowing God to do God's thing. Sometimes God does something physically when people need some deep healing at emotional level. That might mean falling or weeping or laughing even. But these things can be so easily twisted and used for wrong reasons and so we must be wise.

I'm so sorry for what some of you have been through with all of this.

@whataboutbob

This is all very interesting, really the kind of conversation I realise I’ve been wanting to have for a long time. I believe suffering is inevitable in life, faith is no protection and illness/ disability/ suffering should never be seen as a moral failing. My father was a lifelong church goer. He lived abroad in Muslim countries for a long time and in his last post the local Catholic Church was mostly octogenarian Italians. So off he went to the c of e church, which turned out to be quite an evangelical one , not least due to the presence of several American military and diplomatic attaché families. As he was a social animal, he was drawn in by that aspect and on returning to England joined an evangelical church. In his last years he got dementia which was as hideous as dementia gets. He forgot God and even punched the mental health trust chaplain who came to give him communion ( he had no idea what the poor man was trying to do). When it got so bad that he was in hospital and we were told no one would support his return home, I went to the cathedral in floods of tears. I knew no one there, it was just a place to turn to. The cannon simply told me that God had not forgotten my father. No judgement, no “if he had faith / if I had faith” etc etc. It as a relief and I haven’t forgotten that man’s kindness.

My DM is a Christian who has had dementia for a good few years. When you said that God has not forgotten your Father, that really comforted me for my DM so thank you

Is this of any use to anybody?
here

They look like brilliant resources Oma. I wish I had them when dad was still alive. I lived in fear of the day his behaviour meant he’d be barred from his church. I have seen the Glorious Opportunity founder on YouTube and was very impressed.

Hi all!

I've just found this thread and want to say thank you for your honest discussion. So refreshing to see different strands of Christianity coming together for some frank and interesting chat.
And thanks for all the book recommendations too! Will definitely be looking at some Nick Page.

I grew up in an evangelical background and though I now question a lot of it, I am grateful for the exposure to people with genuine spiritual gifting and the freedom of expression I was afforded. I now attend a low CofE church which, as someone on this thread so eloquently put it "has open edges to the Holy Spirit". I am thankful for the accountability afforded but the CofE leadership and appreciate the structure, balance, and safety of liturgy in a way I never thought I would.

My DH is also in the process of applying to train as clergy so I am particularly interested in what a church should be at the moment.

Welcome stringypotatoes

Hello Stringypotatoes

It is an interesting question - what should a church be? I suppose that is something that many an academic will have written a thesis on. It is interesting to look at the early church and compare it to modern life. Sometimes I think I can be quite insular and the way that we live life in a compact family unit is very different to the more communal way that the early church was.

I've been thinking about the holy spirit over the last few days. I hadn't realised until I started typing how much baggage I still had from something that happened many years ago. I've never really told anyone about it because at first I felt like a failure and later on I thought people would think I was foolish to get involved with such a group. I've told DH bits and pieces about it but have never told anyone else.

Despite it all, I am interested in experiencing the holy spirit in a way which is more similar to what MHD described. Something which doesn't involve any pressure to conform.

Welcome Stringypotatoes! Great to have you on board. We sound similar in terms of preferred church style - I, like you, am grateful for the freedom I've found in all of this and in others giftings as you say but very wary about any form of coercion or suggestion to conformity as a requirement to being 'one of the gang.' good to meet you - exciting about your DHs calling too - it's an adventure of a life!

@applesandpears33 I'm so sorry you've been through some tough stuff with all of this. I think that the charismatic edges of the church are perhaps even more open to abuse because people mix it all up with power and control, with cult of personality, with a sense that they must make everyone else conform to their behaviour or view of God and the way the Spirit moves. Thankfully many churches aren't like this at all and I guess I've been lucky to not encounter this, and would run far away if I did. But I'm so sorry it's left scars on you.

I'd be delighted to talk more about my experience and explore it in gentle ways here or by messenger if you prefer. One of my favourite verses is from 1 Corinthians and says this:

For the Lord is the spirit,
And where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom.
And we, who with unveiled faces, all reflect the Lord's glory
Are being transformed into his likeness with ever increasing glory -
That comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

The Spirit is all about freedom, about comfort and assurance. Sometimes she has been used fraudulently as a tool to uphold toxic power struggles, and she is far from those places. She is in the everyday, in the love and ministry of others, in the stillness of nature and the beauty of the skies. She is closer than you know, she is the tinges of hope on the horizon and the glimmers of light in the darkness. And sometimes she is present in more obvious ways, sometimes in even physical ways which restore and heal and make your heart soar. She made King David dance without care for dignity and Peter speak with unforeseen power.

I've experienced her touch in many ways and it's never been a touch of forcefulness. It's been gentle and kind, and sometimes a rush of power that leaves me breathless but in peace i can't even contain.

I'm sad that the work of the spirit in certain ways has been a mark of abuse in certain corners. I think we only need to look at Jesus to see what the work of the spirit does: comforts and leads into hope.

Hello again.

Definitely not keeping up. Just popping in. Too bloody knackered to keep following too many threads. Menopause has brought an increase in fatigue with HSD/hEDS. Joints gone a bit bonkers. Oh and I had a bad cough back last March, couldn't breath well, fatigued ( though it is difficult to tell, but I am occasionally having to rest mid washing up, sometimes twice) but I have noticed that my taste is changing and, unfortunately I can taste that artificial sweetener aftertaste again... I was due a chest x-ray back a year ago last Autumn but was too tired to go, then got my usual winter cough in that January, then Covid was coming so avoided hospitals because I was still getting rid of that cough and didn't want to risk Covid...

Anyway, once GPs open again a bit more I will pick up the asthma/ not asthma thing and maybe get that chest X ray

Also acquired another diagnosis of a disability. Now officially disabled rather than the might be might not be depending on seriousness of HSD/hEDS and peoples interpretation of that.

The good news is I need the thread less. New church (about three or four years ago now) is providing much more friendship and support.

I am needing to catch up on housework so using some of those threads to get me motivated.

Not read the full thread but a few posts. Some really interesting ones.

Hello BlackeyedSusan good to hear your news although not all of it is good. Glad you could share it with us.

@Redact wishing you strength in supporting your mother. It’s a tricky journey, sorry about the platitudes. I just did my best for my dad and tried not to beat myself up about not being his hands on career till the end, I couldn’t have managed that.

Sorry to hear of your struggles but glad you have some good news too!

Hi, I'm just finding my feet a bit in coming back to God so hoping to keep up with this thread My anxiety is having a field day with finding my faith again, giving me many questions and doubts and internal voices saying "yeah, but you're not really going to make it as a Christian this time either are you???" so I'm trying not to put too much pressure on myself and take baby steps so this thread was a very welcome find.

Needahand Welcome. Whether we ‘make it as a Christian’ does not depend on what we think or do but on the fact that God loves us and accepts us. There is no need to strive, the victory is won and you are accepted.

needahand I've a good friend who is a nun who has had similar problems despite having been a nun for decades. I admit I was surprised, but that was more to do with how I viewed "religious professionals" than anything else. Occaisonally I know she still struggles. If you were to ask her if she's made it she'd say she doesn't know. She'd also say that none of us, not one, truely know. Only God knows who is his. She has also reminded me a lot over the years of our friendship that whilst our view of God can be blocked by our anxieties and fears His view of us can't be. I've found that to be very helpful.

Needahand - I agree with the others. We all struggle at times. I like the parable of the good shepherd. We all wonder off just like sheep looking for more attractive pasture but Jesus leads us back into the fold again.

Could I put in a prayer request, please?
For the eldest, teen DS of a friend; he is just in hospital with a serious & unknown brain condition, under investigation.
Also for the family as they go through this with him.
Thank you.

Hi rosey, that sounds awful its a reminder to pray for all those facing diagnosis and for parents of sick children. Such a fear filled time for them.

Hello BES I am sorry your health is failing you. So prayers for you too. So glad you have your faith community links.

@Needahand42 please don't doubt your ability to make it as a Christian. To paraphrase my favourite internet priest, you arent saved because at any one time you are keeping 8 out of 10 commandments, you are saved because Jesus died for you. I don't know if that's too cheesy or too flippant and i dont love the rhetoric of being saved, but it made me laugh, and think. You do what you can, you live your life as best you can, you take your praise, your problems and your questions to the Lord. I was overwhelmed when I came back to faith. It just seemed like a life's work, step by step, church visit by church visit, prayer by prayer, to be a (in my case) "proper Catholic". Take it one day at a time and it's not all or nothing.

@Redact I'm sorry about your dm. A prayer for her but most of all for you, it's hard to deal with and you need all the help you can get.

Hello @StringyPotatoes, no easy answers but I know a church is more than the sum of its components, the people your dh will serve. How long will it take? You have plenty of time to get your head around it and how you can play your part. Sounds exciting!

Waves to becca, good to hear how you are getting on. I remember your earlier posts. Your situation was interesting (I know, difficult). I hope you are finding happiness in your own way, pandemic allowing.

Rosey Such difficult situations. Prayer is mighty, so I’m glad you came to ask.