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Philosophy/religion

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Slightly spooky subject here - honest opinions required of those with knowledge either in early child development or in ethereal matters

101 replies

lisalisa · 01/11/2007 11:41

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Dinosaur · 01/11/2007 14:40

I'm changing my tack too - there is no way that the wind in a bedroom can blow over a cot!!!

Get your rabbi round pronto and get him out of that room!!

Sorry I was so complacent before .

Lulumama · 01/11/2007 14:45

lisa DH saw the boy, which is what made me think more about it, as i am into all that sort of thing, in a way, and DH is the biggest cynic! i had seen him not long after we moved in, and it scared me, so i asked him to not scare me again.

he did not come back until DD became more fun , more lively, and more of a physical presence in the house.

DH saw him run across the hall, he thought it was our DS, but then he realised DS had been upstairs with me..

i then saw him again under our table in teh hall.

in the 4 years we had lived in the house, nothing had ever fallen off the shelf in our room where our telly, is, and suddenly , a CD was hurled off, whilst we were in bed, with enough force to bounce off something wooden, and wake us up. we then both heard the floorboard squeak outside our room! also, some walkie talkies turned on, spontaneously, which had never happened before or since...

so although we didn;t see him do things, we had seem him in the house, independently, and weird things started happening at the same time.

as i say, it wasn;t until he started getting too cheeky, that we felt we should do soemthing. also, i was very aware of him, but did not allow myself to see him again.

Lulumama · 01/11/2007 14:46

i think justabout's post sums it up really

cestlavie · 01/11/2007 14:50

Without being too scientific about it, I think in trying to figure out what's happening on people would typically work down from the most likely explanation down to the least likely. On that basis, the possibility of it being something paranormal would really really REALLY be the last possible explanation (and even then rank some way behind a real dog scaling the wall, sneaking in the window, giving your DS a nip and then sneaking out again unseen).

That being said, and despite being somewhat, shall we say, sceptical about the paranormal I still get 'spooked' by things even when in the cold light of day you know you're just being daft. In answer to your original question, I looked up about dreams for own DS (22 months) a little bit back.

Somewhat surprisingly, studies have shown the newborns not only dream on their first day but actually dream more than adults in terms of the amount of time they spend in REM sleep. In fact children dream more than adults until about the age of three when REM patterns level out. Although it's hard to tell with kids under the age of three because of their lack of communication skills the same studies tend to agree that if the child can dream, they can also have nightmares and that there is correlation between dream activity and the extent of nightmares. So yes, DS is certainly old to have bad dreams.

Equally, whilst imaginative play generally takes off at around three, the beginnings of it starts much earlier. Along with this comes 'irrational' fears which can be absolutely terrifying for children even if they seem mad to us. Fear of the dark is a very obvious one but kids pick up so much from so many sources (TV, radio, photos, conversations, out and about, other kids) that virtually anything can become a fear if it's associated with something 'bad'.

In terms of play as well, I don't much about the pyschology of it, but even at 22 months I find DS having 'annoyed' conversations with certain toys and characters (e.g. "no, Pat, NO", cue flinging Postman Pat across the room after cuddling him a few minutes previously). The toddler mindset is a strange one but I guess the fact that he likes/ wants to see the dog and is also scared/ attacked by it isn't incongruous to him in the way that it would be to us.

That being said, it's clearly very distressing for DS to be this troubled by whatever it is he is imagining. I think the usual advice in this situation is to be as practical and sympathetic as possible and not to deny (what is to him) something that is very real. I guess in your place I'd remove anything I could from the shelves so there was nothing to cast shadows/ make shapes/ give the dog somewhere to hide behind. Make sure nothing anywhere else (e.g. curtains) is doing the same. Have a soft cuddly very cute dog downstairs maybe that he sees you cuddling (and maybe can cuddle too assuming he's not scared of dogs generally). At the same time, take him 'seriously' when he says he sees it/ has seen it and find some equally imaginative way to deal with it. A leash maybe, so you control it and can 'walk' it out of the room. A special anti-dog spray (perfume container filled with water?) that you spray at it to make it go away if he's being scared by it. Sure there's plenty more imaginative (um, stupid) ideas as well.

Just a few thoughts anyway.

justaboutdrippingblood · 01/11/2007 14:55

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Dinosaur · 01/11/2007 14:56

I would have agreed with you, cestlavie, were it not for the troubling detail of the cot being tipped over...

flamingtoaster · 01/11/2007 14:59

How scary about the cot - it's given me goosebumps just reading about it! I hope you can get someone round soon to do the "cleansing" so you can all get back to normal!

cestlavie · 01/11/2007 15:10

Yes, sorry, hadn't seen about the cot.

That's obviously not explained by DS's imagination although I imagine there may be other possibilities which would explain that (though not knowing your house it's a bit hard to say...) I'm assuming that this is the first time something like this has happened despite the fact that the 'dog' thing has been going on for some time?

Blu · 01/11/2007 15:11

I was going to tell you about DS's 'night terrors' - in which, from 14 months (or thereabouts) to about 3 he appeared wide awake and consistently shouted the same things and acted as if he was 100% awake...etc...but the cot kind of blows that.

Take your DS to sleep elsewhere and see if he has the same reactions in another room.

Try sleeping in the room with the cupboard and see if you experience anything?

cestlavie · 01/11/2007 15:13

Yes, I was also going to suggest the same as Blu although I think your MIL has also slept in the room and found it fine. That being said, it might always give you a clue as to what DS did/ is finding distressing.

justaboutdrippingblood · 01/11/2007 15:14

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Blu · 01/11/2007 15:16

I used to hallucinate as a child - i regularly observed witches dancing in circles under my bed, seemingly for hours, until I was about 7.

A friend told me recently (when I was having difficulty with DS often thinking that things he had imagined had actually happened) that children's brain waves operate at the same level as an adult high on drugs, and that developmentally, because of this, thier imagination is as real as real events. But i haven't had time to research it.

I am normally highly sceptical about paranormal goings-on - but I believe that reports of 'poltergeists' tend to be from families with growing children. Never heard of a report of harm coming to anyone as a result of a paranormal event, though, so don't get too frightened!

ShrinkingViolet · 01/11/2007 15:23

going on the assumption that it could just as easily be a spirit as not, i'd be tempted to get both the Anglican exorcist person as well as your Rabbi on the basis that the exorcist person is "trained" specially in dealing with this (in the saem way as you'd use a qualified lawyer, or doctor, as that is what they do ifswim), and your Rabbi can provide your personal spiritual comfort/reassurance. A belt-and-braces approach as my dad would say

LilRedWG · 01/11/2007 15:30

Major goosebumps and teary eyes here!

WitchTwoOh · 01/11/2007 15:32

how can wind blow a cot over? it's a cot with bars, yes? so the wind would go through the bars? sounds a bit unlikely to me.

LilRedWG · 01/11/2007 15:33

Definitely get someone in to clense that room - be it a rabbi, priest, vicar or bloke from the park bench! In the meantime, can DS bunk up with someone else?

lisalisa · 01/11/2007 16:07

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hunkermunker · 01/11/2007 16:14

Will you let him sleep in there?

Dinosaur · 01/11/2007 16:16

Just don't watch The Shining, whatever you do...or anything else with spooky young children who "see" things...

justaboutdrippingblood · 01/11/2007 16:29

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3Ddonut · 01/11/2007 16:33

Good luck lisalisa and your ds, do you think that he will sleep in there tonight???

bunnyhunny · 01/11/2007 16:33

Blu - dh also said that children 'hallucinate' things, and that they perceive imaginary things as real . Apparently he used to watch horses racing along the skirting boards.
But that doesnt explain the cot...
If you really think it was a cross-wind, I would go with the doggy spray and the lead to get him out of the room. Can you introduce him to a friend's dog too? In the mean time I would be tempted to swap bedrooms with his sister so that the cupboard doesnt scare him anymore.

this may be silly, but could you put a nice, friendly cuddly dog under the sheets in the cupboard that you could find together?

funnypeculiar · 01/11/2007 16:41

Wrote a big long answer all about ds's night-scares ... then read the cot bit, which is a bit freaky-deeky.

But, fwiw, Lisalisa, at about 2-2.5 Ds saw a lady in his room - she got more and more 'invasive' & it started really scaring him - to the stage that he would wake every night frightened. He used some odd language about her - eg would tell me she was 'bad' - a phrase I don't use/he doesn't use about anything else (he'd say naughty). He descirbed her in a consistent way, too. The whole thing freaked me out good & proper

We used 'toddler psychology' approach - with a 'Go away lady' ritual which involved lots of banging & sticking up special protection on his door, which the lady would know meant he didn't want to see her. We also made it very much his control - he had decided he didn't want her to come in his room anymore, we were just telling her. Worked amazing quickly for us ... but then she never moved had any furniture . Worth a try at least before you bring in the heavy guns? Maybe set up a dog bed in the shed/garage for the dog to live there?

funnypeculiar · 01/11/2007 16:42

Also, as a stop gap, could you fix something over the cupboard doors? So, if he/you shut it, the dog can't get out?

lisalisa · 01/11/2007 17:11

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