Evangelism and recovery

[anon988678]

This may be long and rambling so apologies in advance! I've had wine so being brave. Please be kind.

Some faith background is something like I was bought up in a family that were occasional church goers, I'm agnostic, very easy going, generally believe in a god but no set ideas about that. Didn't ever worry or feel a need to 'seek'. Was always peripheral to a church. Regularly it seems, wherever I go in life I meet people who are religious, form friendships or have some reason to have involvement with a church. It's odd now I think about it, I joke about wearing a beacon. I have always considered religion just something that my friends do.

4 years ago I was subject to an evangelical intervention involving 2 members of a church I was peripherally involved with. I was really shocked I think because my true friends have never done this to me in all the years of long friendships. I wasn't expecting it. I didn't ask for a meeting. Was invited for 'coffee' at a school mums house and the priest was there and that's how it happened. It was clearly a set up. I didn't speak at all and they didn't say anything horrible to me but I felt under enormous pressure to agree to the line of questioning and all the time could see the door behind him and felt trapped. During this experience I had a massive panic attack. These have continued whenever anyone talks about god or if they say they'll pray for me (a few friends would say this and I never worried about it before) I will have a panic attack. To the point I've moved away from some friendships as I can't handle it anymore.

Afterwards I tried to reach out to the school mum that was there and she pretended she didn't know what I was talking about.

I really thought I was getting over it but now I realise that I have become terrified of God but all the while I'm drawn to scripture and sometimes rely on prayer. Its like my very own hell loop. I try to avoid both of these things for my own mental health.

A friend who is a GP sent me some cbt resources and now I'm able to recognise the panic attacks more quickly, I've started to experience chest pains with them so feel things are getting worse. I don't feel really able to talk about this is real life because I think I'm being rational, normal or sane. I thought at the time I was having a psychotic episode and now don't feel like I can trust my own judgement. I also feel like I've been naive and quite frankly I'm ashamed that I got myself into this mess.

My main question is about how to recovery and how to go forward. I feel at an impasse. I can not go on like this. I have tried Googling but nothing useful coming up.

Please be kind. I realise this is probably a really stupid post

I'm sorry I don't have much helpful advice to give. Just want to say I really feel for you. Sounds awful what you've been going through. Could you make an appt with a GP for some more formal help? I wonder if they might be able to hook you up with some talking therapies. I think you've nothing to be ashamed of, talking about it in real life - you were ambushed, you haven't done anything wrong, and it's not wrong to feel the way you do about such a difficult event. Hope someone else comes along soon with more knowledge.

Sorry this happened to you.
Evangelism can be a bit cult-like I think.
Do you feel that you were traumatised by the incident? The feeling of being trapped and shocked as you weren’t expecting it?
Does PTSD sound like something you identify with?
Could you try counselling? Talking about it is difficult, but a trained professional can help you.

You have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. The people that did this to you should be ashamed.

Thank you for your kind responses. Speaking to a dr I think is beyond me right now and I'm conscious a dr might respond differently to a problem rooted in religion/faith. The problem is I think that I keep being triggered by signs I can not avoid. Probably not making sense.

Hello I'm sorry you are feeling this way. First you need to realise this is a mental health or anxiety issue, not a religion issue. It's only very tangential relation to God. Your doctor friend was right to offer CBT but maybe you need to look into other cures, meditation, therapy/counselling, possibly medication (although I'm not recommending it, just whatever you need to feel better.)

The main thing is do not feel ashamed or blame yourself for as you so negatively put it "getting into a mess". We all have our ups and downs in life.

I am religious myself and wouldn't want to advise you stop praying or withdraw from what relationship you have with God. But I do think you need to do what makes you feel better and if religion is getting you down give it a break but don't obsessively avoid it and make it out to be a future trigger for panic attacks.

Whatever is triggering for you needs to be dealt with as you can't let these things control you. I really do think a counsellor could help.

Try googling (or mumsnetting) for more advice about dealing with panic attacks. I don't think you should work through this alone so feel free to keep talking here if you like. Perhaps we can help you uncover what it is about this encounter that upset you and is still upsetting you.

Just seem your 21.37 post sorry xpost. I didn't know you didn't want to speak to a counsellor. What do you mean about triggeredby signs you cant avoid?

Thank you for your reply. I do realise this is a mental health/anxiety issue. I can delete this or move it to another section if I'm interloping here. I'm generally a very robust and resilient person.

I have made a very definite decision to walk away from all things religion but this hasn't worked out. Out of the blue (for work) quite bizarrely I have had to engage with it again and have found that emotional.

Sorry to be vague, blame Aforementioned trust issues

Oh no I didn't mean you were posting in the wrong place. I just didn't want you to miss out on help you could get if you treated this as an anxiety issue rather than focusing on religion and a one time run in with some overzealous evangelical types.

What you say about not being able to avoid religion resonates with my suggestion that you need to deal with the underlying issue and not just try to avoid whatever sets you off.

See if you can find techniques to help you recover when you do have an attack. There are breathing exercises you can try. Dont just abandon yourself to panic. I know that taking charge of it seems impossible right now. It's not impossible.

Not a stupid post at all, OP. It sounds like spiritual abuse and I'm so sorry you've been through that. No one should have put you in that situation where you felt ambushed and trapped, it was wrong, the fault is all with them.

It does sound like in the midst of this you still have a bit of a yearning towards the things of God. I wonder if it's helpful to try and separate out these people and their out of order, pushy and abusive behaviour, with God, who allows free will and choice and never pushes for response or anything you do not wish. It's so hard sometimes to separate out the religion with the religious, particularly when the religious have caused you pain, which these have.

I would agree that it would be wise to contact your GP and see about further counselling for the things this has all brought up. I'd also cut off contact with anyone who makes you feel under pressure in terms of religion, and seek out only those who are kind and come alongside you, and share their faith in non threatening and gentle ways. Unfortunately there are people out there using God to control others, and sadly it looks like you encountered some like this.

In my experience this is the opposite to who God is and how God interacts with and encounters us where we are, within our pain and suffering, within the mental struggles we have. You're very welcome on the Christian coffeehouse thread if you'd like to come there.

I really hope you're feeling better soon

Thank you both for your thoughtful replies. Madhairday your reply set off the tears.

I have not heard of spiritual abuse before. I'll look into it. Looking back I didn't really understand what was happening until afterwards. I was very naive.

I will go back to the Cbt stuff and try again. I don't hold out much hope for counselling I know services are really pushed in this area. I wonder about medications but then I'd have to tell my husband and I don't want him to hear this. He has his own story relating to abuse in a church setting and will be very triggered over this. He's a fervent atheist now and he'll be so disappointed in me. He only knows the basics of what happened and he thinks it's forgotten about.

I struggle now with the idea of a god who is good and wants me to have a choice when at the same time I'm required to be obedient and pledge allegiance when I'm not really sure. There was quite a bit of talk about obedience to God but maybe that was a play for control. I felt unable to respond to any of the prompts and left as quickly as possible.

Thank you for your kind invitation to the coffee thread. I think it's a bit beyond me at the moment but I do appreciate it. And all the flowers xx

Why would your DH be disappointed in you for going round to a friend's for a coffee? You didn't ask for all the other stuff and it wasn't your fault. Is it possible he might prefer you are open and seek his support rather than hiding it? I also wonder if this experience is linking back to any time you felt trapped or misled in your past. Sometimes (not always) our reaction to something is amplified due to earlier experiences. If you are still interested in a spiritual life the just some quiet reading in your own time might be useful. Or find a church that isn't in the slightest bit evangelical. I think almost anyone you speak to about this would know where you were coming from and agree the incident shouldn't have happened and wasn't your fault.

Thank you for your thoughts Auto. I don't think there's something in my past, I have good relationships, family and friends and a wonderful marriage.

My past experience of trying to tell someone about this, actually I told 2 people initially and both of them said it was "out of love" and they were "just being nice" by trying to convert me. So just bottled it up after that. With the exception of the GP friend, I just told her about the panic attacks and not the cause.

I could tell DH but I know it'll trigger negative emotions in him and I don't want him to have to go through that.

Just having these replies saying it wasn't my fault and it wasn't okay has lifted a weight. I just thought it was me.

As a Catholic this sounds so bizarre and I'm sorry you experienced this. For us, free will is always paramount and respecting another person 100%. "Evangelization" is God's grace that we cooperate with as we feel led to, at our own pace, on our own timeline. The whole concept of an "intervention" is foreign to me, as is applying pressure to anyone. I don't feel pressured to "bring someone to Christ" because I believe the Holy Spirit does the work not me. So I make myself available but true friendship is loving the other person in and of themselves, not to find converts! I am open about my faith and don't hide it because it is just a fundamental part of who I am, but neither do I expect others to change because we become friends. If they are drawn to God, that's between them and the Holy Spirit.

I am so sorry that this experience has influenced your concept of God and Christians but I don't blame you. God is love, so if you didn't feel loved something wasn't right, mostly because the individuals were not open and honest with you. I totally agree that any manipulation is inappropriate. It sounds like the experience has actually traumatized you, if you had a panic attack. Whatever safe and healthy methods you use to bring back some equilibrium would be a good idea. In the future if you are interacting with Christians for any reason I would politely explain that you are exploring spirituality at your pace and are not interested in any overt evangelization. The end. Put some boundaries in place for the over-enthusiastic.

I'm a Catholic. I may not be practising but I have my beliefs which I keep to myself.
I worked with a guy many years ago who was a pastor at an evangelical church in my town. He was always trying to convert me and others at work by talking to us about his religion, pushing it at every opportunity.
I told him I was a Catholic and he said 'you are not a christian'
I decided he was not a christian and not very kind either

I am so sorry you had this experience. I was a member of an evangelical church for a while and while I've not seen such a heavy handed intervention I stepped away from a community that was in many ways a great source of support because I had concerns that some of their zeal to convert tipped over into abusive or at least not nice practices.
On your panic attacks. I am thinking some boundary work of the type you do with PTSD could help. They sound a bit too simple but are basically about allowing your body to process its flight fight freeze responses. Basically observe your surroundings with no judgement. Just look about you and remind yourself you are safe. Calms the terror alert signal.
Sit and do a running action with your feet. Let's you mimic the flight response. Sit and push our with your hands. That mimics fight response. Use scarves or any other boundary marker to draw a ring around yourself. Sit in it and remind yourself you get to have this space. It's yours you have a right to exist. This side is you that side is them.
I know this might sound ridiculously simple but I struggled for a long time moving away from that church. Running arguments in my head constantly. I did those exercises for a week, 20 secs each one at least 5 x a day. Then I burst out laughing because I knew suddenly that they dont get to tell me what to believe or how to think. Now I am a member of a different type of church. Very different so I get my spiritual need met and I can pursue my relationship with God which I need and want. And when someone does this types of things to me I can imagine the boundary right then and there. That helps. I also do the I'm safe and fight flight stuff when I'm agitated. It really works for me in a way that months of deliberating and trying to think through what I believed etc didn't.
Evangelicals get lots if instruction on arguments to make, how to be effective in their interventions. Dont feel bad at how you felt and how you responded. You got ambushed. It's a horrible thing to fo to someone. And not neglect that your instincts to join a group etc kicked in heavily in those circumstances.
I hope you feel better soon.

Thank you for your thoughts wishingstarr. I'm afraid I've made myself look like a complete idiot in front of friends who mention something seemingly innocent and I've reacted badly. I feel bad asking them not to share.

Anordinarymum that man doesn't sound very nice at all! I find this whole area just exhausting now. Thank you for sharing your experience. I feel like I need to have stronger boundaries.

Thank you for your reply lasttimeround this is really useful. I did completely freeze, maybe that was part of the adrenaline. I've been blaming myself for not getting up and walking out like anyone else would have done.
I'll give your exercises a go, I've had to go fast walk off the adrenaline before. And I won't sleep at all after a big panic attack.
Can I try to get to know God without a church or instruction?

Do try them. I started down thus path after reading the body keeps the score. Which I think is a bit of a classic on the science of these things. Or the neuroscience or whatever. Found a local trauma specialist and she gave me these exercises. I had a whole compound of things amounting to complex PTSD. In amongst them was total indecision about what to do about church.
The first thing that happened was just laughing and laughing about it. Thus is after maybe 2 years of mental and emotional agonising. Basically I just clicked that they have no power to tell me what to do or what to think.

And I think God is there with you wherever you are. You can connect with God in whatever way works for you. Church can help, if it's the right church. But god is with you always even when you cant hear it sometimes

And dont feel bad about the freeze response. It's a normal natural thing to happen. The problem is only when you get stuck there or you constantly trigger it without needing to.