What would Jesus have thought of us all hiding away like this?

[letsgomaths]

I think it's an interesting question, the way we were forced to stay apart because of the virus, and not take part in collective worship, with the total endorsement of the Church of England. In a way, it doesn't feel like a very "Christian" thing to do, hiding away, instead of spreading the word. Would Jesus have taught us to "stay safe" in this way, by avoiding our neighbour? He certainly would not have advocated "distrust and report thy neighbour". There is also a certain irony to churches literally flying the flag "Thank you NHS", like a new religion. Yes, I know the Church of England has to go with the general message of the country, whatever that might be. Should the CofE be fighting the government's "singing is forbidden" rule?

I know that things are different now in that we're able to have some form of worship online, which was not possible not that long ago, so we're not totally separated, but I have sometimes thought that if this pandemic had happened at a time when going to church was more widespread, people might have resisted lockdown more, perhaps with slogans such as "if we die in worship, it's the will of God".

(Please no replies about fairy tales, Christians being deluded, and "imaginary friends" - that's been done to death on Mumsnet; although I do realise that some might say "why didn't God destroy the virus?".)

Well, he said love your neighbour, not possibly kill them during a pandemic.

Actually I see the opposite. I see it as a kick up the backside for all our churches that are stuck in a rut. We’ve been given the opportunity to find new ways to gather and to serve our community. I think previously we were to stuck inside our buildings and sunday morning routines. Stats show that more people are accessing services online than were attending church pre-covid - people are searching and we have to be ready. Am I looking forward to gathering with my church family again - yes of course but I’m hoping we have a fresh view of what church is and how we can live out our faith when our ‘religious’ anchors are removed.

I think it’s fairly easy to get down with all things Jesus in a pandemic. I’m sure he’d approve of us taking time to tend our land and engage with nature, raise our children at home with wholesome
activities and simple, meaningful work. I’m sure he’d prefer we don’t judge and shame people for what they do and don’t do. Imagine you’re a sheep shepherd in biblical times... you’re not gonna be partying every afternoon spreading the word. So I think Jesus would encourage us to take this as a time for quiet reflection and contemplation. A time to review our needs and wants in life and bring them more into line with a more sustainable, slower way of living?
And a time to be confronted with the fragility of life, of course.

OP, I seem to know lots of Christians who agree with you, but I disagree with them and you I'm afraid. We're not hiding away, we're protecting people, and there are still plenty of opportunities to serve others. We can stay in touch with online meetings (including online worship) and phone calls, and we can now even meet in small numbers outside (or some churches are now running services in their buildings - I don't know about the CofE though). We're not being prevented from worshipping God or from sharing the gospel. I agree with the PP (sorry, I can't remember who) who said that we can use this as a time of reflection and renewal of our relationship with God, and a time to reassess how the church serves its community.

What a fascinating question OP!

My thoughts are that this pandemic has hopefully exposed our true societal values which lets face it, are rotten to their core. Eg- we've now had the chance to truly appreciate how vacuous and shallow and unimportant all that instagram/social media nonsense is and how vital and important the caring professions are. We've seen how the accumulation of "stuff"(which is what our entire society is based on) is utterly meaningless when it comes to life, illness and death. I think its also hopefully made us realise the importance of other people and that only when social contact is taken away do we realise how much we really need it.

I kinda feel this pandemic has a bit of a Noah/flood quality about it. Its brought us to our knees, and its only in this position that we realise whats really important in life.

Interesting. I work for a Christian Charity and it's been an opportunity to serve within safe guidelines- so delivering and posting support rather than getting clients to come in and collect or attend face to face sessions. Very striking that the 'all about the building' Christian organisations haven't stepped up and I'm unsurprised and unimpressed.

That sounds like quite a judgmental Jesus.

I agree with you, though, that this does make me think about where God is in my life.

I’m guessing he’d view all the ‘hiding away’ to protect others as an act of charity.

And as far as I can see there’s plenty of opportunity for spreading the gospel during the pandemic.

I think the church has taken the right position. If you go out now are you spreading the word or spreading the virus?

There is a case for individuals to volunteer as and when needed even if it puts them in danger (as christians have done through previous plagues and epidemics) but to needlessly disobey government guidelines in order to sing ... ? Why? Many congregations have older and vulnerable populations.

if this pandemic had happened at a time when going to church was more widespread.....

Plenty of epidemics have swept through the world when going to church was more common. Here is a quotation from the 1918 pandemic:

"We place ourselves on record as cheerfully complying with the request of the Commissioners, which, we understand applies to all churches alike. We furthermore recommend that our people shall conduct in their own homes some form of religious worship remembering in prayer especially the sick..." - USA Protestant Ministers

Although Jesus would have healed a leper, he didn't go around telling them to stop hiding away, which were their social rules to protect people without leprosy.

Funnily enough I was talking on my local radio about this last night, but again from the opposite POV. My reflection is that it has been a time when churches have stepped outside the building and engaged with community, practically and online, and I've seen it over and over again. We've discovered that the church isn't a building but a community of people supporting others. Over 1 in 4 of the British public attended an online service over Easter alone. Suddenly church has become more accessible and inclusive to a whole load of people it wasn't so for before - for example, those who are disabled and chronically ill and housebound, those who work shifts, those who struggle with physical church for any reason. I'd say that while we lost stuff by closing we've found stuff too and that it has done a heck of a lot of good for the church, it's woken us from slumber and made us reassess priorities (is the organ fund more important than the support of the homeless shelter?) - it's kicked us out there and we've risen to it, and because of that many have engaged with faith who haven't before. We're running online Alpha courses for example and have some great interest and great conversations within those as well as supporting people through them. And churches are out there in their communities in a million practical ways, so I would argue they are in fact fulfilling Jesus' directive to love their neighbours. I think Jesus would be totally going with the government advice and asking us to do the same because that is about loving our neighbours too in terms of not spreading Covid and causing death and suffering. I am very wary of any churches that are 'bucking the trend' and rebelling to meet together, sing together etc because that seems to me to be the very antithesis of the spirit of this faith which has always been about upholding those who are oppressed and on the margins - ie the vulnerable. I have to say the sort of churches I've observed doing this tend to be those who tend towards the right wing conspiracy nuts who think Donald Trump is God's instrument and that they are immune from all of this (and it's fake anyway.)

Not saying you are like that OP - just a general observation. :)

@Madhairday

Over 1 in 4 of the British public attended an online service over Easter alone

Do you have a source for this? I'm genuinely interested and not trying to be goady. I'm just struggling to imagine 20million+ Brits attending an online service when some 40% of the public are Atheists, another 40% or so Christian, and many of those Christians never attend church services in any case.

I have had to take a massive step away from my church, when people were outraged they couldn't receive Holy Communion orally and they were adamant that due to it being the body of Christ is safe. People were not willing to listen to those with concerns about this and they went on the attack to say we are not believers.

I didn't see any of them answering my calls for fundraising to support the church members that lost jobs during Covid or needed food or other support.

They did create a fund for the Church as a building to pay it's bills.

For me the church is the people and this has put me off forever.

I think Jesus would agree with me.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX it's from this survey, which I do realise is certainly not exhaustive but does give a general flavour of what was happening and what churches were observing (we had around 7,000 views on our Easter Sunday service for eg.)

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/03/british-public-turn-to-prayer-as-one-in-four-tune-in-to-religious-services

That's very sad, @Immigrantsong - I'd want to get away from such a church too. Thankfully it's not the experience of many - we've been all about support for those who need it (and still are being very intentional in all of this.) Such a shame and like you I'd be very upset and angry at that.

What did the churches do in the times of other plagues e.g. Black Death? Close down or insist on staying open and spreading it? I think entire towns and cities were quarantined - the idea is not a new one.

Or I suppose they could have stayed open and drummed up a good trade in funerals.

I imagine the relevant question is, "Who would Jesus infect?"

There’s been lots of periods in which weekly church in a public venue attended by hundreds of people has been impossible. I’m surprised you think this is new in any way.

The life of the Church goes on, adapted to the circumstances, just as it has for 2000 years through war, oppression and disease.

Your suggestion that thanking the workers of the NHS is akin to a new religion is both silly and mean-spirited.

but I have sometimes thought that if this pandemic had happened at a time when going to church was more widespread, people might have resisted lockdown more, perhaps with slogans such as "if we die in worship, it's the will of God".

Darwin award much?

Express route to heaven. You first.

Jesus would have behaved like my neighbours. He would have put notes through their doors giving his name and number saying he was there for them what ever they needed. He would have gone on FB groups and offered help to the sick and vulnerable, delivering packages of food and medicines. He would have thrown physically distanced street parties and spoken loudly about how he thought the conservatives weren't doing enough to help the poor and the weak. He wouldn't have cared that churches were closed because he would have found a field/beach where he could preach and camp.

@Madhairday

Thanks for the response. I can't read much of the article as it requires a sub, but the opening few lines resolve my query anyway.

A QUARTER OF ADULTS in the UK have watched or listened to a religious service SINCE THE CORONAVIRUS LOCKDOWN BEGAN

Subtly different from the claim in your post, but I am a pedant, and was intrigued by the implication that there had been a massive and sudden increase in religious observance in 2020.

Let me just say one thing. The church is no way being beaten down by Covid. It's quite the opposite. The church has never been stronger. 1 in 4 people in the uk have been watching church services online through this period. That is a very large increase compared to pre-lockdown time.

I got to a pentecostal church, so quite modern and up to date with all social media platforms. We've been having services twice a day on youtube plus lots of group video chats on social media, live facebook videos with pastors, small groups of us meeting up once it was allowed etc. We still managed to hold our summer uniform bank in line with regulations. Our food bank has been in full swing. So while meeting up to worship has been different, we have not been hiding away at all. Our congregation has grown. Our online services on youtube have been watched by thousands across over 20 countries. All those people, all coming together, not physically but in spirit. If covid and lockdown had happened before the Web and before social media then it would have been much harder.

As for the NHS, why would that be a threat to churches, or to God? Just because we believe in God and see him as ultimate healer doesn't mean that supporting doctors and nurses is a bad thing. God works through all of us, doctors and nurses included.

@catspyjamas123

The churches that could socially distance during black death did. They often had outdoor services in the countryside. No idea what city churches did. Times have moved on now though and online services work amazingly well.

My church moved outside and had a drive-in church service. People parked in the parking lot, an outdoor speaker played hymns and the pastor's message. We have not done Holy Communion but we do have services - even did an outside christening.
Those who wish to can hand an envelope thru the car window and donate for church worker salaries, church utilities, etc.
Every Wednesday we distribute food via drive-thru in the parking lot.
Oddly, we have members who have become more active since they were barred from attending church.

And why would widespread churches take an "If we die, it's the will of God" mentality. That's something they'd have done in the 12th century. Definitely not now. We understand the need to keep everyone safe. As the bible shows, sometimes circumstances mean that you have to worship God and come together in different ways. But that doesn't make the worship or social gatherings (virtual or physical) any less powerful.