does anyone else feel alienated by the direction the CofE is taking?

[MaMaLa321]

I was really looking forward to going to the Ash Wednesday service this year. In previous years it's been a spiritual, intimate experience, and was very special. This year we had a sermon on climate change, and the liturgy contained such nuggets as repenting for judging people for not being the same as us. I do have sins, obviously, but the whole thing was like being bashed over the head.
The Lent course is on climate change, based on a book aimed at 'adults, young adults and children'. No thanks.
Oh yes, a few weeks ago we have a whole sermon on Safeguarding.
There is a new person in charge, who seems to have a completely different agenda.

I feel very unhappy, as I really like worshipping there, but I feel like the rug has been pulled out from under my feet.

Why are you unhappy with these topics?

Jesus was very good at making comfortable people uncomfortable too. I think your church sounds great.

Embrace the change! Don't be one of those sticks in the mud who gets all huffy about new things and fresh directions. Every religious community has one, and they're such a drag.

What your new person has brought is very similar to what happens here. We had a sermon that included climate change a couple of weeks ago and it often appears in the prayers. I've mentioned safeguarding and on Ash Wed did a whole sermon on repentance and judgement.

You may see all this as part of the problem but the question is I suppose what do you want from a church service? It might be that the new person has a different style, more reflective and less based on teaching doctrine, more social justice, less focused on liturgy or something else.

A new person will bring change by not being the old person and that is a challenge for many congregations but what was it that you valued about the old style that helped you grow as a Christian and live your faith? Might identifying that help with how to engage with the new priest?

oh well, I'll fetch my coat, as they say.

The whole theme of ash wednesday is repentance for sin - it's sort of what I would expect if I went to an ash wednesday service.

yes, I do know what Ash Wednesday is about.

One of the hardest things for a new priest who comes in are the unspoken assumptions. I would love my lot to actually tell me what they want, miss, find helpful, don't like but it seems it is really hard to do. Everywhere you go people say, oh we do the normal thing, but the reality is that the normal thing is different tin every church.

So don't get you coat. Spend some time working out what it is you miss and perhaps talk to your vicar, priest minister or whatever. They don't know until someone tells them.

Different churches have different styles, and a different priest can make a big difference. Climate change is very topical and if the lent course isn,t for you then don,t do it there are plenty of lent courses you could do on line.. I don,t think it,s a C0E thing I think it,s your church.

Are you able to explain what it is about using a book aimed at "adults, young adults and children" that makes your reaction "No thanks"?
Or is it the subject of Climate Change?

I'm sorry if my flippant remark earlier was hurtful. I have certainly been in a position where a sermon made me feel bashed over the head and it is very uncomfortable. Priests and ministers aren't infallible and do get things wrong sometimes. I wonder if you would find it helpful to spend some time in prayerful reflection analyzing your response and why it makes you feel so uncomfortable. Is your discomfort actually the Spirit of God convicting you of a need to change something? Or is there something else going on? Sometimes a sermon aimed at a "general" audience will trigger something upsetting for one person that the speaker would never have intended to be interpreted in that way.

Sermons on Safeguarding are also important - it has only been very recently that the covers have come off terrible things happening within the church because people didn't have a good understanding of safeguarding. There is no immunity from such things happening again, without watchful understanding that they are possible.

I don't want to do a Lent course on Climate Change, and, if a book is aimed at children, it's not going to be exactly intellectually challenging, is it?
I don't believe sermons on safeguarding are of any use. By all means use safeguarding measures with people involved with activities in the church that require it. But everybody? No. Also, the CofE has a pretty poor record when it comes to this - think of Bishop Bell, for a start.

it sounds like you are generally comfortable and happy with a very traditional kind of church that sticks to well-worn paths. you are comfortable with your thoughts dwelling in the cerebral and the spiritual.

The whole point of Lent is to set aside our normal comforts and deliberately choose to be uncomfortable for a while, as a way of re-examining what we thought we knew.

A book that is "for adults and children" is not the same as a book "for children" - I have no idea which book your Course is using but I have certainly used resources which were aimed across a broad age range where the kids might engage with each topic on a fairly simple level and the adults might engage with the same concepts on a more complex and intellectual level but all would benefit from approaching the subject as a community and learning from one another. Jesus told his disciples that they have a lot to learn from children after all.

And on safeguarding - the whole point (probably one that was made in the sermon had you listened) is that it is, yes, everybody that needs to care and be aware. safeguarding is not something that only those who need to know should care about. it is everybody. ordinary people thinking that it's not their concern and none of their business is precisely how predators are able to thrive.

but if you are not spiritually strong enough this Lent to engage with being out of your comfort zone then by all means seek out a church which won't challenge you to grow just now and has Lent activities you are comfortable with. the Church of England encompasses a huge variety of styles of worship and theological positions - don't dismiss the whole denomination because you aren't getting on with this particular congregation.

I guess you're talking about the 'Live Lent' booklets / course that the C of E are using this year? There is a booklet for kids, and another one for adults with a reading, short reflection and action for each day. And it's not about climate change per se, it's more about care and stewardship of God's creation, which is something we're all called to do, surely?

Perhaps the sermon on safeguarding was because the church has been so bad at safeguarding in the past?

I can't agree with you about safeguarding, as I do think thinking it is only for specific roles within an organization is a big misunderstanding.

But I think you've been spoken to rather unpleasantly on here, and I'm not going to be all superior with you about your unhappiness about your church right now. Everyone operates differently in their expression of faith, and it doesn't sound to me like you were 'challenged' by the proposed Lent course, but pushed away, and I'm disappointed that other Christians would be so smug and shoulder shrugging about that.

It sounds as though a different approach would connect with you better, and there are lots of resources out there to explore, so I hope you manage to find something which challenges and connects you in your faith.

How dare they tell you not to judge people

I think it's really hard when your church feels like home, a place of refuge and safety, and you feel the sermons don't 'speak' you. But I also think the sermon is such a small part of the service. By dwelling on this, you are being distracted from any meaningful spiritual engagement.

If it's bothering you that much, attend another service where you can focus on your relationship with God.

I do find this sentence interesting:

'I was really looking forward to going to the Ash Wednesday service this year' - I wonder if your expectations of what church should be/ what specific services are like are setting you up for disappointment

By all means use safeguarding measures with people involved with activities in the church that require it. But everybody? No. Also, the CofE has a pretty poor record when it comes to this - think of Bishop Bell, for a start.
Safeguarding is the responibility of everyone in church. It's because of attitudes like yours quoted above that Bishop Bell got away with abuse. And its because of the realisation that such things happened that the churches have tried to get a grip on the problem. Perhaps you should be asking; not what you church can do for you: but what you can do for your church.

I sympathise, OP.

While I concern myself with safeguarding and climate change and so on, I prefer to address those in specific situations where expertise and views can be exchanged without being distracted by other topics. If I want to look further into political issues, for example, I will go to a political meeting.

I primarily go to church to be reminded of/reinforce the message of the Good News. That God so loved the world that he sent His son to die for us. That He loves me to the point of dying for me. I need to be reminded and have clarified that, although His love is not conditional on it, I need to respond to that love by showing it to others, and, being imperfect, I need to ask God's help to do that.

While the points mentioned above may be part of that, I need to be helped to keep sight of the Christian message being primarily about love: God's for me, and me showing it back in large and small ways every moment of my life.

It sounds to me as if the church you visited was over-emphasising one or two particular ways they like to show love and, for you at least, under-emphasising the basis of that love. It's not wrong to need a different approach; you need to find one that speaks to you and helps you to build your relationship with God.

And there are times in many lives where we are in a place when all we can manage is to throw ourselves into the arms of God. When we look to Him to be Our Father as a parent to a frightened/sad/lost/confused child. And we need to find a church that helps with that. And it's OK to need that.

I hope and pray you find a church, or a service that gives you what you need at this time. They are there.