Anyone else lost their faith?

[startouchedtrinity]

I've gone through on here often enough why I've lost my Christian faith (in fact it was on here that I tried to keep it going and then finally gave up!). Am much happier on the path I am now on (Eastern religions) but still can't understand how something that was once so real to me just isn't any more. I wondered if anyone else has had a similar experience, and how you explain it to yourself?

TheDuchess - in my experience if you find an open, honest church you can bring forward any issue (e.g. homosexuality) for discussion.

This is all making me think. I've never thought in grand spiritual terms I suppose -I think I find meaning in smaller things. I don't know why. For example, my dh is away for a long spell just now and I'm struggling a bit on my own with the dc's. Last night there was a big fire outside our house and 3 cars got completely burnt out. But not mine. I usually park it EXACTLY where the fire was but for some reason I didn't yesterday. I feel like God knows I couldn't cope with that at the moment. I know I'll get loads of posts saying this is ridiculous but I just don't see it that way.

Thanks, Mary.

You see, the thing is I didn't walk away from my faith. The experiences thing - okay, you can't expect that all the time, but I always felt that God was with me - until one evening, I can even remember it, I was sitting in my nursing chair feeding dd2 who wasn't sleeping, and I realised that I was on my own. And I spent the best part of two years begging God to come back, not to leave me, just for a moment to let me know it had been real. And even when my friend's ds died, even when I lay in hospital with nb ds and dd2 was in the children's ward with dh b/c they thought she had meningitis, I begged and begged and got nothing.

So, either God isn't very kind, or God isn't the kind of personal God I'd believed in for years but is in fact some kind of source or energy, or madamez isn't that far off the mark with her Jimmy Carr joke.

Now I'm no longer a Christian I don't feel eaten up by guilt, but at the same time I know I am accountable to myself without the 'get out of jail free' aspect of being 'forgiven'. I don't have to try and understand why there is suffering - it just exists - and I don't have to try and explain why God doesn't intervene, because the God I believe in isn't a personal God with a will that can do that. Jesus is actually more interesting as a mortal man who let himself be killed b/c his ministry was so important to him he would die for it. I've tried relying on God and it didn't work, so now I have to rely on myself.

Best of all, as I said earlier, the Eastern religions are about living in the now, and as a Christian I would spend so much time worrying about the future (or longing for it), or regretting the past, when neither exist. It is really helping me in a concrete way to be more peaceful.

But I would be lying if I said I didn't miss the quiet moments late at night, with a dc asleep in my arms, when I would just be with Spirit. But that's gone, and I now wonder if it ever was real at all?

Do you remember my story about the rabbit looking in a pond at the reflection of the moon, and every time he put in his paw to get it the reflection broke into a thousand pieces? (That story really made me cry as a child!) Anyway, now I'm finally looking up at teh moon in the sky.

Thanks again,

STT (nearlythree)

Hi

I thought it was you, because it sort of "felt" like you , IFSWIM! It may seem daft to you, but I always felt a sort of affinity when I read your postings, even if I didn't agree with you!

I did the "begging God" thing too once, it didn't work for me either! Its only now I see that what I was asking for wouldn't have been right for me. The loss of a child is different though.

I think sometimes, if we think of God in any other way than an "imaginary friend" we try to ascribe human attributes to him, like kindness, love, cruelty, anger. Yet it doesn't always seem to work like that. I've recently read some of the writings of Julian of Norwich, and whilst some of it is quite "floral", the part where she questions God on suffering really struck a chord with me.

I DO remember your story, and I'm glad you're currently at peace, do you think "that's it" for you, or do you see yourself as still searching for truth? I know I've finally found the peace I needed. I've stopped regretting the past, and the future is in God's hands. The here and now I sometimes struggle with, but it helps knowing I'm not alone.

Hi, Mary!

I keep on outing myself as N3, I have done even on this thread in a reply to UQD but no-one seems to notice! Yes, we've had some good discussions and shared quite a bit here.

All that I was begging God for was to know that he/she was there. No miracles or special signs. Just not being alone.

I don't feel let down, b/c I no longer think that God existed. But it's hard to get my hear around why I believed 'he' did for so long. It's like being deluded for 35 yrs. I really want to make sense of this and it really annoys me that I can't!

I'm not quite at peace yet, in the sense that my path now is very new to me and I am learning a very different way of thinking. It takes time and discipline, neither of which are easy to come by with small children, but it feels right and even exciting. And I also think it will be a positive way of being to pass on to the dcs, as you know I'd concluded that the CofE was no fit place to raise a child. I'm closer to being at peace than I have been for a long, long time.

No, of course that isn't it for me,, any faith story continues to the day we die. If anyone had said to me three yrs ago that I would lose my faith, let alone end up on a Taoist/Buddhist path, I would have been certain that they were totally wrong, yet here I am. So I am quite prepared for a few more surprises along the way, and now know the folly of saying that any particular walk is for life.

To be fair, all religious faiths are made up by someone or other, all have various possible interpretations (depending on what particular hang-ups the relevant priest/translator had: why some branches of some faiths are so frenziedly hung-up on sexual behaviour is more to do with the personal problems of whoever was in charge of the books at the time than anything else). FInding a way of looking at life the universe and everything that suits you is cool as long as the way you choose doesn't involve interfering in other people's lives too much.
Best of luck anyway.

Thank you, madamez. That is what is great about the Tao, its big thing is non-interference. I'm afraid I agree with you that when I was a Christian I was believing someone's spin on story of a man who, without the spin, is actually quite remarkable. There is so much expediency too over which parts of the Bible certain branches of Christianity will do away with.

madamez - I know what you mean, and I have to admit the biggest interferers I've found are other Christians picking holes in what I believe, just because their brand of Christianity is different. Gets right up my nose!

STT - Life has been so busy, that I don't always see the obvious . Have you read anything about Mother Theresa, and the crisis of faith she experienced (not that I'm describing what you are going through as that)? Makes v. interesting reading.

www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1655415,00.html

Its a bit long, but quoting a section of it (P5), which profoundly affected me:

"The Rev. Joseph Neuner, whom she met in the late 1950s and confided in somewhat later, was already a well-known theologian, and when she turned to him with her "darkness," he seems to have told her the three things she needed to hear: that there was no human remedy for it (that is, she should not feel responsible for affecting it); that feeling Jesus is not the only proof of his being there, and her very craving for God was a "sure sign" of his "hidden presence" in her life; and that the absence was in fact part of the "spiritual side" of her work for Jesus.

This counsel clearly granted Teresa a tremendous sense of release. For all that she had expected and even craved to share in Christ's Passion, she had not anticipated that she might recapitulate the particular moment on the Cross when he asks, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" The idea that rather than a nihilistic vacuum, his felt absence might be the ordeal she had prayed for, that her perseverance in its face might echo his faith unto death on the Cross, that it might indeed be a grace, enhancing the efficacy of her calling, made sense of her pain. Neuner would later write, "It was the redeeming experience of her life when she realized that the night of her heart was the special share she had in Jesus' passion." And she thanked Neuner profusely: "I can't express in words ? the gratitude I owe you for your kindness to me ? for the first time in ... years ? I have come to love the darkness. " "

Thank you Mary.

I did go through something that reminds me a little of this when I was in my early twenties, I think it lasted for about a yr to 18 mo. But I never lost my faith nor stopped believing in the nuts and bolts of Christianity, it was just that I couldn't get anything from my faith, I knew God was there but couldn't get through and reading the Bible was like reading a bus timetable.

Now, I just don't believe.

Well, I hope and pray you find what you are looking for...

Thank you Mary.

Well I went to church today! Actually it was the childrens' service and dd2 was climbing the walls (no pre-school today) and I knew my friends wouldn't mind. I did sing along with 'Make me a Channel of your Peace', I used to sing it to dd2 when she was a baby - we had it at her baptism, it was the week of the Beslan massacre and ou rold pp [reached about it and the church was full of sobbing people when we sung MMACOYP to dd2...Otherwise I felt more comfortable than the last time I went to church for something so think I am making peace with what happened. I didn't really want to talk about my journey so just chatted about the dcs, but it was nice to know I could go and not feel threatened or angry.

Have been listening to a Buddhist retreat course on CD this evening and it is very right for me.

Mary, how is your studying? Are you a Reader yet?

nearlythree so good to see you. I really don't know what to say because like you say it's not like you just don't feel him anymore you just don't believe. I suppose one thing I would say is that its a choice to believe or not. I could choose not to but Iwould still need to fill that space with something iyswim.

Glad you went to church today and found it ok. Will pray that you will find peace.

used to be longwaytogo xx

notsofarnow, that sounds like a positive namechange!

There was a time when I would have done anything to have been able to choose to believe, it was as though the very foundation of my life had fallen away. Going to church today has made me realise that although I no longer regard myself as a Christian I don't have to be alienated by it. I still let dd1 read her Bible stories and will be allowing the dcs to learn about and experience a range of different beliefs so that they can take from each what they will. Thank you for your good wishes, I hope that you are on the road to peace also.

Hi STT,

No I've got another 18 months of study to go yet, and 2 years before I am licensed. Finish studying April 2009, licensing Oct 2009.

Am intrigued by your CD. What is it, words/music/sounds or a mixture?

STT yes on road to peace - sometimes. Will soon be divorced so not what I wanted but there we go. If everyone's life can be happier through it then so be it.

I'm the other way round, having grown up CofE and lapsed as a late teen adult (to the point of having a pagan wedding) am bizarrely rediscovering my faith. Feels v. odd. But right, somehow. Have actually met the Deacon and Rector and went to Morning Prayer yesterday. Stumbled my way through the service (couldn't work out which page we were on most of the time). Thought I'd be safe with the Lord's Prayer, at least, but they used the modern one with no 'thine' or 'trespasses'!

Prayed for a dear friend of mine who was facing a diagnosis of pancreatic cancer - a cancer than tends to kill you quite quickly. Later heard he's got the all clear, diagnosed with something treatable. I know it's not as simple as 'ask God for something and he'll sort it out for you', of course, but it does feel like yet another of a series of signs that I really should do this. Am not arguing, anyway, just v. grateful my friend will be OK.

Am planning to take (unchristened) ds to a service on Sunday. It's all his fault, anyway, he dragged me into church on the way back from the park and started all this!

Should be 'teen/adult'.

workersforfreedam come and join us on the chirstian prayer thread. Even if your just finding your way its a good place to share your thoughts and feelings.

I can sympathise on the modern lord's prayer. I've only said it 3 times before, so have to look at the words. Similarly (shamefully for a minister-to-be) I have to look up some of the prayers during the service, even "Almighty God, to whom all hearts are open..." I don't know off by heart yet!

Blimey Mary, even I know that and I'm a nonconformist

'..all desires known etc.'

Yes, but I WAS RC... strictly speaking I only became an Anglican at Easter last year!

.. and from whom all secrets are hid ..."

(And I officially joined the Baptists this week. But I was an anglican for 10 years in the Scottish Episcopals!)

STT I just wanted to add that though I cant help being a little for what has happened with you, I really appreciate all your honesty and searching. If only others were as spiritually open as you in so many ways.

I do pray for you - and I'm glad you were able to go to church and not resent it. I keep coming back to the fact that God said he would hold us all in the hollow of his hand - and trust that He knows what he is doing in nad with you, een though you dont realy think he is there.

Flip I'm going to get myself expelled from Bible College is they read what I write on here!

BTW STT I had a bit of a crisis of faith at the end of last term as I was finding a lot of stuff overwhelming, academically and spiritually.

I dont know how 'up' you are for reading any CHristian thelogy right now, but I sense you may benefit from reading things by Jurgen Moltmann and Miroslav Volf.

Would recommend 'THe Spirit of Life' by Moltmann and either "Free of Charge' or 'The End of Memory' by Volf. Very challenging for Christians and non as well.

Not to 'make' you a CHristian again, but because of some of the things you have said about searching.

I'll go away now, 4 posts ina row is too many!

Isn't it from whom no secrets are hid, Harrisey?