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Philosophy/religion

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Arranging a Catholic Baptism - Am feeling very unwelcome at church :(

61 replies

twelveyeargap · 02/09/2007 21:34

Back at the start of August I rang our local church to ask about arranging a baptism for DD2, who was just gone 2 months old at the time. We moved into the parish in Jan, and although I'm not a church regular, I have been to mass and since Easter have been going more often.

I was put through to the catechist co-ordinator, who firstly grilled me on what part of my road I lived on, to make sure I was really in the parish boundaries; somewhat like trying to get on a GP's list really. She then told me to see her after mass the following Sunday to fill in the form for new parishioners and then we'd talk about baptism.

She asked me to bring back the form the following week, but since I was away for the next two Sundays and she the Sunday after, I asked her could I fill it in there and then so we could get started. She gave me a booklet about Godparents and another form and told me to give her the second form the next time I saw her. Asked if I could fill in that form straight away, given the timing of holidays, but she insisted I take it away. She told me there was a pre-baptism course we needed to do (fine), before we booked a date (ok), but that she didn't know when the next course would be (unhelpful), but that there was usually one a month. Wasn't here last weekend so was up at 8.30 mass this morning with the (short) form filled in and a copy of my baptism certificate and baby's birth certificate.

She chose that time to tell me that since they didn't know me in this parish, I would have to get a letter of introduction from my last parish. Told her that we've moved around a lot (7 addresses in 5 years) and that I only met the previous priest once or twice when I worked at the homeless shelter and that he might not remember me. (I'm not the sort who goes introducing myself after mass). She said that my other option was to wait 6 months until they knew me in this parish. So I'm really starting to feel at this stage like I'm being punished for not being devout enough and not making myself known at church. She then says that she'll "contact me about course dates after she gets the letter from Fr. So and So". Now if she'd told me I needed the letter four weeks ago, I could have had it waiting for her when she got back from holiday. That's just for starters. And if the last priest doesn't remember me, then if it wasn't for the fact that DH's dad is a Eucharistic minister and we're known in his parish (and can prob get some sort of "reference" from there), then I'd be rightly stuck. She's basically telling me that I've no right to have my baby baptised until she's 9 months old because I'm not known at the church.

As it is, she's said that she's not doing the pre-baptism course this month and it will likely be at the end of October. Well DD2 will already be 5 months by then. DH's sister, the Godmother, is due her baby at the start of November so it would be December before we could guarantee her attendance, which of course is Advent and a busy time at church.

I came home from mass today and cried my eyes out. I thought that the one place I'd feel welcome after moving to a new area would be at church and I feel like this woman is trying to test my faith when she has no right to do so. I'm trying to do the right thing and get my baby baptised and welcomed to the church and if I do things her way, then the child could be 9 months old before it happens. Even if DH's sister was free in November, that's still a whole 3 months I'm being asked to wait before I'm even allowed to book a date. And then, and only then, can I try to find a date that suits the Godparents and grandparents. I haven't even managed to drag out of this woman if the course is a day, a series of evenings over a number of weeks...

Is it just me? Am I being over-sensitive? I was baptised as an adult, in Ireland, and this woman knows this from the first form she made me fill in. I don't come from a Catholic family so I don't know "the drill". I don't even know if this is normal, but I think she could be helping and encouraging, instead of making me feel like I have to prove my worth.

My adult baptism, first confession and first communion didn't even take three months to complete... And the priest was delighted to have me. I'm so sad. I thought I'd be made to feel welcome at the church and I feel like I'm being shunned for not being a good enough Catholic.

The priest that married us in The City said at Christmas, when he saw I was pregnant, that he'd love to do the baptism. I only said I wanted to do it in our home parish so we could all be welcomed there together, given that we're new and now I feel like we're not wanted.

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TellusMater · 02/09/2007 21:45

Gordon Bennett!

We don't go to our official parish church as it is bloomin' miles away and there is another closer, where we are made very welcome.

We moved here a month before ds was born, so the first time they saw us was with a small baby. We were never asked for a reference , and had one session with the priest before he baptised ds and then dd. They do run a course now though I think.

Is there a popular local Catholic school or something which makes them feel the need to crack down?

twelveyeargap · 02/09/2007 21:58

There is a popular school, and I thought of that, but then I really don't think it's fair to be harsh on me because of other people abusing the church to get into good schools.

And then the thing is, they'll look at mass attendance when you apply to the school. It's a bit much to be grilling me now...

Feel like telling her that there's a perfectly good state school around the corner and to give me a break.

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Kewcumber · 02/09/2007 22:03

blimey O'Reilly. She needs to get out and get herself a job - I think she needs some power in her life legitimately! Surely getting a child baptised should be something any church would welcome???

Lupins71 · 02/09/2007 22:09

TYG sorry have no advice but hugs to you, this sounds really unfair and tedious, I to would have assumed the church would have welcomed you especially as they have poor attendances in this day and age, maybe the attitude of women like this may be why, hope this gets sorted out soon xxx

TellusMater · 02/09/2007 22:12

Oh I agree with you.

She is being an arse.

Have you spoken to the priest. It might be worth having a chat with him.

Tommy · 02/09/2007 22:25

I am and on your behalf and embarrassed that people like her give Catholics a bad name

I would make an appointment to speak to the priest about the baptism and how sad you felt when you got home today

That is not what it should be like at all

I'm now as well.....

Just to comare...we have a very large Polish population here and my priest told me that the young Polish couples like to go to him rather than the Polish chaplain as he rather insists that the couples are married and my priest just likes welcoming babies into the community.

Whereabouts are you, twelveyeargap?

twelveyeargap · 02/09/2007 22:36

I'm in North London. I haven't actually met the priest, though I've obviously said hello and goodbye on the way in and out of the church.

DH was trying to comfort me today and told me yer woman was a busybody and to write a nice letter to the priest asking if there's anything we can do to move things along and perhaps tell him (in a very careful way) that we feel a bit unwelcome with all the hoops we're being asked to jump through.

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catinthehat · 02/09/2007 22:41

My suggestion is to cut & paste your opening post into a letter to your top man local priest, with a tiny bit of editing to turn it into a real letter, and toning down any cross references to eg.,"this woman". (Make it clear its for his eyes only). 1) He will be gutted 2) Babe will be baptised much sooner than 9 months 3) Woman will behave better to newcomers in future.

professorplum · 02/09/2007 23:05

She sounds like she might be very bitter that she isn't allowed to be a priest, or indeed God. We did half hour course with the parish sister, dh didn't even come to it with dc2. Then we had to arrange a date with the priest. They didn't check any documents, they didn't seem to care.
Talk to the priest. If you don't get anywhere go to the Bishop. It is your church and you have as much right to be there as anyone. If you feel that you are being forced to choose a different church then you should feel free to tell them how much damage they are doing.

frogs · 02/09/2007 23:08

North London? Name and shame the parish, go on.

We were in a similar position when dd1 was born 12 years ago. I asked around a bit -- the church I'd been going to we weren't actually in the parish for, IYSWIM, which only became an issue when we asked for the baptism. And we weren't married, which complicated matters a bit, as I was not prepared to be bullied into marriage for the sake of appearances.

As far as I could make out, priests tend to take one of two lines in this situation: either the one you encountered, which is presumably to try and make sure that the baptismal commitments you make as a parent are being taken seriously, which involves trying to establish or encourage some degree of regular practice. But I did encounter a priest at a different parish who was pretty much prepared to baptise all comers -- he invited me to an initial group meeting where there were about 10 parents in a similar position and pretty much got the diary out about 10 mins into the meeting to book dates!

In the end we had dd1 baptised at the university chaplaincy in Gower Street, since both dh and I had connections to the university at the time, and it was a really lovely ceremony, very personal to us.

FWIW I think Sister Witchy or whoever she is is letting the power of her position go to her head. It's out of order to make you feel unwelcome, and she shouldn't be carrying on like this. I'd suggest you approach the priest directly, and tell him how you feel. Otherwise, go and talk to the priest in the City and take his advice on how to proceed.

Do CAT me if you want to discuss specifics -- I know bits about quite a few north london parishes through people from the kids' schools and SVP etc. On the bright side, you'd have to start going to mass regularly anyway if you want your child to go to a catholic school. Most parishes will have a family mass with some kind of children's liturgy attached, and that would be the mass to go for if you want to get involved in parish life. And then just volunteer for everything going, and you'll be a pillar of the parish in no time!

twelveyeargap · 02/09/2007 23:09

Thanks everyone. I feel much better.

I did worry that perhaps this person had just rubbed me up the wrong way and perhaps I should phone her and ask if there's any other way round the obstacles in order that I can get the baby baptised sooner. I was a bit concerned that "going over her head" as it were, would just make things worse and make it very awkward when I see her at mass? (She's there for every Sunday service to copy and hand out the newsletter and what have you...)

Though perhaps it is important that the priest does know how it all made me feel?

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catinthehat · 02/09/2007 23:11

Would be interested to know the outcome on this....

twelveyeargap · 02/09/2007 23:26

Knowing how easily we booked the marriage at St Mary Moorfields in The City; priest didn't know us from Adam and was thrilled to have a marriage to do; I know he'd just let us just book a date and get on with it. He even thinks the marriage prep course is a bit of a nonsense. And it would be special to have the ceremony there, since our lovely wedding was there. Just slightly awkward getting a load of elderly family members from the City back home to N10 for food and drinks etc. And in some ways am getting narky about feeling bullied out of my own church too. Will mull it over.

Frogs - have already volunteered to clean the church, dontchaknow...

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cornsilk · 02/09/2007 23:27

We just asked the priest after mass with ds1 and that was that. He did comment that he'd never seen us at church since we were married (TRUE!) but we didn't have to do any course or anything. With ds2 priest (diffeerent parish) came round to our house and we decided on a date. Your experience sounds awful.

frogs · 02/09/2007 23:42

Fleet of black cabs for elderly rellies? Otherwise people will give lifts -- we had to ferry largish no. of people from N1 (our old parish) to N19 (our new house) for ds's first communion, and it was fine. Luckily Arsenal were not playing at home that Sunday...

Hmm, N10. OLofM perchance? I suspect the slightly edgy welcome may be due to the very high number of complete chancers with no catholic background trying to blag school places for their kids. I've seen a little bit of this kind of thing first hand, and it ain't pretty -- the lengths that people will go to are pretty alarming, and that will be true of pretty much any London parish with a half-decent school attached, so it's understandable that people can sometimes be a bit off-hand with new faces. I would try to interpret the defensiveness in that light (charitably!), go along to Mass at a couple of different times to get a feel for it, make some polite conversation with the priest. In a sense it doesn't really matter where your dd is baptised, you'll become part of the community anyway if you start going to Mass and getting involved.

Countingthegreyhairs · 02/09/2007 23:55

... and they worry about declining numbers ...

so terribly sorry you've had this experience twelveyeargap - agree with Kewcumber and others - that woman sounds power-crazed

I'd ignore and go to the priest directly - if no joy - go elsewhere and explain why

We had a horrible experience when my sister called the local priest about my father's funeral. We wanted to establish that my father would rest overnight in the church (usual to have service when coffin is admitted in to church night before funeral - then funeral takes place following morning). The priest's response was (and I quote literally) "I don't do bodies in the church". This was the day after my father's death. We were all so upset and offended that we went to the next priest in neighbouring parish who was half human.

It's experiences like yours and mine that make me wonder why I am still a practising Catholic frankly ...

Good luck and I hope your daughter has a lovely baptism.

twelveyeargap · 02/09/2007 23:57

Spot on Frogs. I'm in the catchment for Rhodes Ave though - a very good school. I feel like telling yer woman. That and the fact that I moved house to get DD1 into a good secondary, rather than abuse the church and start attending more regularly to get her into a RC secondary. Though some people might consider a strategic move to be morally wrong... That's another story.

I think the schools thing is probably the issue. I still can't help feeling gutted. Think I might phone her and talk it over before I drive myself any more mad about it.

And perhaps just go and have the service elsewhere anyway and get the cabs!

N1 - one of our many and varied parishes was St John Evangelist. DD1 went to school there. Maybe they'll have us.

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twelveyeargap · 02/09/2007 23:59

@ that priest, Countingthegreyhairs. How awful.

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frogs · 03/09/2007 00:00

I wouldn't recommend that commute, 12ygap -- we commuted from n19 to N1 for ds's school (not StJE, slightly further East) for half a term before he got a place at Holy Joe's in Highgate, and it nearly killed me. But 3yo dd2 developed a lasting fascination with the Liebeskind building on Holloway Road, which she was able to peruse at length 4 times a day while we were stuck in traffic...

alycat · 03/09/2007 00:03

Also if you do go to The City to the priest that married you, he may require a permission letter from your Parish Priest (saying that he's fine that you are having you dc baptised at a diff church, it is only a courtesy nothing legal)- I kid you not!

twelveyeargap · 03/09/2007 00:25

Oh I meant "have us" for the baptism, not the school. at commuting from N19 to N1 for primary school. Miserable indeed.

ROTFL at needing "permission" to go elsewhere.

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margosbeenplayingwithmynoonoo · 03/09/2007 00:56

12 yr - How mean of the woman!

We had dd2 baptised today and it was a wonderful service, much better than dd1s. Everyone - even non-RCs - commented on how nice it was.

Countingthegreyhairs · 03/09/2007 01:18

thx Twelveyear - to be fair to the priest in question - he's old & over-worked and had a minor stroke a while back ... but still ...

it's good to hear a positive story for once Margosbeingplaying - congratulations on your daughter's baptism -

morningpaper · 03/09/2007 07:18

POOR YOU that woman sounds AWFUL, what a shame

Hope the priest is more sympathetic - a baptism should be a fabulous and exciting celebration - they should be rolling out the red carpet! xxx

Juicylucytoo · 03/09/2007 09:59

Poor you TYG. I'm avoiding all this by getting O baptised at my parents church outside London, where my mum is a member of the UCM and the priest is very welcoming to all newcomers (as all priests should be in my opinion).

A baptism is about the child not the parents and you shouldn't have to prove yourself nor should the child be judged fit or not to join the church on the basis of them (not that there's anything wrong with yours). It makes me when I hear about so called christians treating newcomers like that.

I would have a quiet word with the priest. If he's unwilling to help go back to where you were married. At least you're assured a welcome there and will enjoy the ceremony more for it.