Too old to be questioning the establishment.

[cherryberrymum]

I guess my post has two questions. A bit of background first. I was born and baptised ROman Catholic. I went to a Catholic PS and a catholic grammar run by nuns. I married in a Catholic Church. After 10 yrs of marriage I was really struggling with the marriage so I threw myself into the church and at god to get help. It didn't come and my marriage deteriorated even more. I divorced. My parents were disgusted as they are devout.

I have since remarried (humanist wedding) and have 4 children. My DH is also catholic but we do not practise as our parents told us we can't as divorced people.

Our children are all baptised and all go to catholic school.

I am struggling with my faith. I really try to live life as a good person and I am disgusted by the scandal in the Catholic Church regarding peadophiles and collusion to hide it. I'm disgusted at the wealth amassed in Rome yet our local church is falling
Down. I really struggle to right so much of this in my head. I do believe in god but I'm struggling to follow guidelines set
Out by bishops and cardinals and popes who are not truthful.

My DH thinks I'm too old to "be at this nonsense"
(I'm 47) am I?

Also is there literature or a discussion group I can access to get this all straight in my head?

Thanks x

You're never to old to realise the truth about the Catholic church.

The Chinese have a proverb.....the best time to have planted a tree was 20 years ago......and the second best time is now.

Absolute nonsense to think you're too old to be questioning things. I think we have many points in life when we stop and take stock of what we believe. I've known people in their 40s/50s suddenly investigate Buddhism after being churchgoers all their life because the Christian church wasn't answering their questions about life, the universe and everything.

Thank you for your replies. I'm struggling a lot with this at the minute so it's a little reassuring to know it's normal.

It's normal. I work for the establishment and I question it just about daily.

It is human nature to question! We are all questioning all the time... trying to make sence of faith, it's meaning and our own thoughts/actions.

Your faith is in God, not the Catholic Church. As believers, we all have a "framework" of belief around God, and (nearly) all the Christian denominations have their framework based on the bible.... but differ on interpretations and meaning of what is written in the Bible....or in the Catholic Church's position from the Bible as well as oral teachings/traditions of Jesus, the Deciples and early Church Fathers from before the bible (New Testament) was written and the canon of the complete Bible agreed.

In terms of sinners, we are all sinners.... and God has had to work with sinners since the beginning! The Bible is littered with sinners... who were/are part of Gods Kingdom.
Some horrendous crimes have been committed by members of the Catholic Church. But other Christian denominations, non Christian faiths and secular organisations throughout the world have all had people perpetrate awful sins .... this is not unique to the Catholic Church.
Someone said recently that Church provides help to for your soul just as a hospital provides help to our bodies. We wouldn't think of not going to hospital just because there have been some "bad practitioners" or "poor practices" in the past, and almost certainly will be in future.

The wealth of the Catholic Church also bothers me. However, it is worth remembering that the church has been in existence for 2000 years since Jesus established it on earth. During the centuries since, it has grown to be a world religion, carried along on the Roman Empire. Throughout history, people and nations built up or/or gave to the Catholic Church (sometimes for completely the wrong reasons!!). So many governments wanted to be associated with the Church in Rome, many artists and their understudies likewise. But also bear in mind how many hospitals, schools, churches and how much charitable work has been done in countries around the world over many centuries by the Catholic Church.

Is there a priest you can talk to ... to help answer specific queries?
Online, there is Catholic Answers web site ... with forums, podcasts, articles and radio programs with responses to queries like yours. There are some excellent lay presenters who are easy to listen to and tie a lot of the queries back into the Bible.
Online there are lots of other resources, but my favourite talkers would be Fr. Mike Schults or Bishop Robert Barron.
Also don't forget there are many books of different aspects of your Catholic Faith.

Hopefully you will find something that nourishes and strengthens your faith.

But also bear in mind how many hospitals, schools, churches and how much charitable work has been done in countries around the world over many centuries by the Catholic Church.

That's their job. That's what they should do. That doesn't get to offset the terrible deeds done by them over many centuries, and the ongoing catalogue of wrongdoing and continuing cover ups.

"Look at all the good we do" is like Ian Huntley saying "I was a really good school caretaker, I always opened up in time, replaced blown lightbulbs, etc".

The biggest trouble with the Catholic faith as far as I can see, is that you're not supposed to question it. They don't like it. You're not supposed to think for yourself, you are supposed to do as you are told and believe what they tell you to believe.

Well fuck that for a game of soldiers, that's what I say

You can question whatever you like, and if you don't like it you are totally free to both say so, and to do something about it. You are also free to explore another faith if you wish, or indeed none at all.

Actually I think 47 is the perfect age for your wisdom to be really kicking in. I imagine your husband just wobbles at the thought of the “ disruption” that arises when you start to follow your truth. Fair enough, it’s not for everyone.

I am an ex catholic. I have a strong relationship with god, but I clearly see that the church was mainly set up as a power mechanism. This is now self evident with the scandal that abounds.
Of course there were and are good individuals within the church, the current pope seems a breath of fresh air ( from what I have heard in passing, though he may have gone off the boil, I haven’t been following) .

You can have your own relationship with god, you can even have a spiritual community of sorts.
Find discussion forums, listen strongly to your inner guidance ( which is god’s guidance). Have great courage and show yourself great compassion.
Good luck on your quest. There is nothing in the internal structure of your spiritually that you have to give up.

You don't have to be Catholic to have a relationship with God. The older I've got, the more I think that most religions are simply mechanisms of control - from benign to nefarious and all shades between.

I hadn't read your post before writing mine, @Ohyesiam. That's exactly how I feel.

(I was born Catholic.)

I think it’s reasonable to question and decide which aspects of your faith you support and which you reject.
It is not the Catholic Church who has wronged but individuals using their position to abuse - and the Catholic Church is certainly not alone in that.
I am Catholic but attend an Anglican Church sometimes. I try to uphold some of the foundations of my faith - the bit about loving one another and love being the most important thing. I don’t support the church teachings on contraception nor on abortion. Lots of Catholics don’t. I don’t see homosexuality as a sin either, come to that.
How you use the teachings is entirely up to you. We used it as a framework for our own marriage and our family life but still discussed some of the more challenging teachings and how they have come about. Guilt is never a useful emotion. It needs dumping into the unhelpful basket. We get things wrong. We should try and put those things right and should apologise but it doesn’t do anyone any use clinging on to the self indulgent blame. Live life joyfully and for the maximum pleasure, without hurting others. It is what my God wants.

I grew up Catholic too, but my parents weren't quite as militant about it as yours. I also divorced and remarried.

The RCC doesn't own your faith, nor is it "the one true church" as they like to have their members believe. After years of not attending church at all I started attending at an Episcopal Church, which is the descendant of the Church of England in the United States. The liturgy is almost identical to what you'd find in a Catholic mass. About a third of the members of my parish are former Catholics.

So my suggestion would be to try a protestant church and continue to explore your relationship with God there.

I echo the PPs up thread who have said that you worship God - not the church.

Deconstruction of Faith is very normal. I wonder if a non-denominational church might fit you better - somewhere that welcomes questions and doubts, while still holding onto faith and being committed to working it out.

Our faith is a journey - it’s not a once for all, done, never question anything or learn anything new or have a new perspective kind of thing.

Where in the U.K. are you OP?

I'm In Northern Ireland so there are massive links in all aspects of my life to Religion. I grew up a catholic in a Protestant town and I have the scars to prove it. My OH isn't from NI and doesn't get how Things we're here (and still are for some older people)

I'm so interested to hear of other people having. Relationship with god without a formal church.

Having doubts is an important part of faith, and so is asking questions. My favourite disciple is Doubting Thomas!
Your relationship with God should be a dynamic, living thing, a dialogue of mutual love as you grow in maturity and understanding throughout your life. It isn’t set in concrete by the dictates of your church - they only prescribe the forms of worship and the basic tenets.
It may be that you need to explore other Christian sects, and examine how your views might fit better with their forms of practice.
My own church (Church of Scotland) is a Protestant church that has had women ministers for over 50 years and is very liberal, inclusive and forward thinking. My minister encourages us to read around, discusses theology, and interprets bible passages in the context of when they were written. She is as far from a fundamentalist as it is possible to get, and very good at channeling God’s love to her congregation and the wider world.
Ultimately, loving God and loving your fellow humans are the only two commandments that Jesus gave us - all the rest is window dressing!

Totally normal but then my background is 100% lapsed catholics!

I've always felt a division between God/The Truth/The Good/ whatever name you want to give it and organised religion. It's possible to glimpse the former through the latter but sometimes it feels like taking a package holiday somewhere amazing but only ever seeing the inside of a holiday resort.

I thought you might be in NI OP. (Catholic grammar gave it away)

There are churches around which are more ecumenical. I admit that it is much harder here than anywhere else I know, because as you say - your faith and which side you’re on tie into every aspect of your life. I firmly believe there is a third way - we don’t need to be defined by orange and green in culture or in faith - and we can all worship and journey together in spite of our backgrounds. There are churches that are doing it, but I will admit that they are few and far between

Of course you are not to old to question your faith, I am over 60 and at my church I am one of the youngest, we have long and lengthy discussions about our faith, not just ‘accepting it blindly’ but being honest and sharing our views and how they are relevant to today’s society and understanding what we must change and do differently.

I do think people "search" more for their real faith as they get older. It is what Christians of all denominations talk about as "spiritual renewal". It is never too old to question and strive to find the answers. Indeed as we get older, we desire a deeper understanding and hence questioning is natural.
I believe it is much easier to have a deeper faith as you get older ... youthful hormones and temptations have subsided, you are more at ease with yourself and recognise what you have to be thankful for while still being aware of the limitations of life and what you perceive to be missing.

I would still suggest you talk to a priest first ... to start to clarify of you want to continue to explore the Catholic Christian framework. Ideas have changed to marriage and remarriage (I have personally heard some priests actively encourage people to apply for annulments to allow them to re-marry). Please don't take your parents views and allow them to stop you exploring.

Although many have said the Catholic Church does not like questioning, that has definately not been my experience at a faith level. (Although i agree, I do see the resistance to questioning at an administrative level).

In Northern Ireland it can be a huge leap to explore and attend churches of other denominations because of the cultural split along religious lines. That is why I would advise you to explore your Christian faith within the Catholic Church first ... and if that doesn't work, then it makes it easier to try exploring elsewhere. But be aware, most Christian denominations / frameworks will have their bits you will agree and disagree with .... just keep your eyes, ears and mind open to fully understand what you are walking in to.

I have experience of evangelical churches in Northern Ireland being very keen to witness to Catholics / ex-Catholics to "lead them to Jesus". Some churches even have online video testimonies from those "saved". Indeed, some churches have audios of their sermons online, so you could have a listen and see if any of those churches would provide the spiritual enlightenment and may be worth exploring in future.

May God Bless you and guide you in your search.

(I was born Catholic.)

No, you were born atheist, as we all are. You didn't believe in a god when you were born as you have no concept of it. You had Catholicism (or any other religion) imposed upon you by your parents.

Lifecraft, you are using rather loaded language there. I as a parent didn’t “impose” religion on my children - I taught them about God and the infinite love He offers to all humanity, personified in Jesus.
I wish all children could grow up knowing that they are loved unconditionally by God, however many mistakes they make, and however abusive, neglectful or awful their parents might be.
Teaching children about God is no different to teaching them literacy, numeracy, or the latest scientific theories - it’s part of their education.

@Lifecraft - Poor wording, but I'm pretty sure you knew what I meant.

Lifecraft, you are using rather loaded language there. I as a parent didn’t “impose” religion on my children - I taught them about God and the infinite love He offers to all humanity, personified in Jesus.

Bit of a coincidence they ended up the same religion as you then. If you just taught them about god, given their are currently about 3000 of them, how come they picked yours. The truth is, you taught them about your god, and your religion, and their belief in your religion is purely environmental. As is your belief in your parents' religion.

Which is how you get people saying stuff like "I was born catholic" and thinking it's true.

Wow, you couldn’t be more wrong, Lifecraft! DD1 is a Buddhist! She still comes to our village church when she’s home, and is made welcome by our minister - who usually greets her with a Namaste!
DD1 was baptised by her own choice at the age of six, confirmed ditto at 19, then converted to Buddhism in her twenties.
She likes to attend services at Christian churches for the sense of community and shared values, especially as she doesn’t have a temple near her.
I think you are trying to project your preconceptions or prejudices onto me, but they’re completely inappropriate.

DD1 was baptised by her own choice at the age of six

Wow, I'm sure at the age of 6 that was an informed choice. If she's wanted to take up Buddhism at the age of 6 would you have been up for that?

She converted to Buddhism as an adult, and thus became one of the 1 in 12 people to have a different religion to her parents. That still leaves 11 out of 12 who have the same religion....obviously not imposed on them.