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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Can anyone knowledgable about religion tell me what I am?!

61 replies

Makinganewthinghappen · 24/11/2019 19:21

I have been thinking about this a lot lately.
My grandparents were quite religious and I was raised to believe in God/the bible but when I was a young child my mother fell ill (she died when I was a teenager) and my family never set foot in a church again. That was that.,

As an adult (now in my mid 30s) I have been fascinated by the bible, biblical archaeology and God. I have never cared much about attending a church but as I get older I wonder if there are others who believe the same set of things as me! And if so what religion/ group are they??

I have tried googling but tbh I’m not sure what I’m looking for - so please help me out in a little game of what on Earth religion am I???

So basic things -

  1. I believe in God.
  2. I do NOT believe in young earth creationism.
  3. I am not fully sold on the idea of Jesus ( I’m sorry I’m just not Blush). I spend quite a lot of time looking At Old Testament stuff not so much new.
  4. I like to study the bible not just be told what it means!

I can’t think of much else but happy to expand if you can.

I would like to find people who have at least a vague similarity in belief with me but the church I have tried out (Anglican just didn’t sit right with me at all.) and I have no idea where I might fit in.

OP posts:
ZenNudist · 24/11/2019 20:08

Not sure sorry but your post intrigued me.

Im a Catholic Christian because that's what I was brought up to be. I get a lot out of mass and Catholic prayers. Ive had 25 years off and reverted less than a year ago. But... I know what you mean about Jesus. I have faith in the resurrection but the whole thing baffles me. I also doubt the bible (but dont doubt the 10 commandments). I have a feeling the major religions are all facets of the same thing. I think diversity of life has brought about diversity of worship and tenants of living that all point the same way. Id love to have a simpler less questioning faith. Im not expecting to get all the answers this side of death. Id love more "answers" so I keep asking questions.

I also don't find science incompatible with God.

I reckon you find your own way to a relationship with God. Talking to him and trying to live a good life. Finding a way to thank him and praise him in your own way.

So maybe it isn't what religion you are thats important. Maybe just find something yoj enjoy and can do wholeheartedly and regularly and helps you be a better person in the world.

PrettyShiningPeople · 24/11/2019 20:11

Why do you need to identify with any religion or believe in a god?

MontyPythonsFlyingFuck · 24/11/2019 20:19

I wonder if Unitarianism might appeal? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_unitarianism

I also think for anyone of a reflective mind it's worth at least giving the Quakers a try.

slippermaiden · 24/11/2019 20:20

I came on to say try Quakers. They are brilliant and very open to different beliefs x

IceCreamConewithaflake · 24/11/2019 20:33

I would say you are Christian. You could try a few different sorts of churches and see if you like a particular type.
These people are a good start, they helped me a lot when I had lots of questions and they don't mind a good debate. They can help you find a church to try if you would like.

christianity.org.uk/

PS most Christian don't believe the earth is flat, most think the Bible has lots of allegory eg Genesis describes evolution, it's not scientific text book (science tells us how, religion tells us why) , You don't have to be perfect to be a Christian - no one is.

Makinganewthinghappen · 24/11/2019 21:15

Thanks!
Pretty I don’t NEED to but I would like to 🙂

OP posts:
AdaColeman · 24/11/2019 21:37

Reading your opening post, I was struck by how much serious thought you have given to your beliefs and understanding, and I agree with other posters that the Quakers could well be your spiritual home, I'm sure you'd find them welcoming.

Smiling2019 · 25/11/2019 16:56

I think you sound like you're exploring Christianity. There are lots of different types of Christian churches and lots of people are surprised when they find one which is really contemporary and has young people/great community etc. There is a church in London called Holy Trinity Brompton which is a very upbeat Anglican Church. They have network/associate churches across lots of areas in the UK. Visiting something like that might give you more clarity. 😊

PlasticPatty · 25/11/2019 17:01

Why not take some part time university level courses in theology? I'd had a pretty effective CofE upbringing, but learnt huge amounts about 'my' religion at university.

PurpleFrames · 25/11/2019 17:03

Are you interested in monotheistic religions beyond CHristianity?

stucknoue · 25/11/2019 17:17

Sounds like me, certainly our liberal Anglicanism at our church. The Church of England is incredibly wide in beliefs so there really is a church for everyone who wants it ... our Vicar did a lecture on the Big Bang! I work for the church not met a Vicar into creationism

picklemepopcorn · 25/11/2019 17:17

Modern Judaism may interest you-

Not being totally sold on Jesus suggests Holy Trinity Brompton wouldn't be your natural home- but don't discount the alpha course. It's handy to know more about the things you are turning down.

Main stream Anglican churches are full of people who aren't entirely sure they believe the full Trinitarian creed. They don't subject the congregation to faith examinations so you'd been fine going there anyway!

I have found Jesus grew on me with age. I always had a profound belief in the Father, less sue about the Son, and didn't know much about the Spirit. With time, my appreciation of all three has grown!

stucknoue · 25/11/2019 17:18

Ps avoid anything to do with holy trinity Brompton - they are super strict on their interpretation and very narrow minded (and that's from our Vicar)

cabbageking · 25/11/2019 21:04

Shop around until you find something that makes sense to you.

Lifecraft · 26/11/2019 13:54

I'm an insomniac agnostic dyslexic..........I lie awake at night wondering if there's a dog.

blankittyblank · 26/11/2019 14:00

I was also coming here to say a Quaker!

babba2014 · 26/11/2019 22:53

A Muslim?
Hear me out 😀
I believe in God
You are interested in the old testament. The problem a lot of Christians have who are unsure (I work with many people of faith and not so sure about faith) is either the Church or the Bible.
Jesus never said he was God (in his own words) and this idea of the trinity or the son of God came about later and attributed to Paul.
Muslims believe in all the Prophets but Jesus was also a Prophet like all Prophets. Eg on the cross he is crying out to God. If he is God then how does that work? He also did not have further information about the hour.
Muslims believe God is All-knowing. We can't see Him in this world though. There is no image of him (does this ring a bell with the 10 commandments? Yet there are statues of Mary and Jesus everywhere).
Muslims do not believe Jesus was killed but he was raised to heaven and will return towards the end of time which a lot of people think is not that far off because of all the turmoil in the world. There are a lot of prophecies in the hadeeth but every prophet came with teachings of the signs of the last day and warning against the anti Christ.
Someone was killed on the cross, but not Jesus.
Did Jesus exist? Does his birth seem too far fetched? Muslims believe that when His can create Adam without a mother or father, and Eve without parents too then He can definitely make Jesus without a father.
Muslims believe all books of God have been changed (and Jews and Christians also know this) but the Qur'an is the only book that has not changed and it is the last book to have been revealed.
In it we find that the Prophets were not sinful. In the Bible (and this is where we think are the parts that have changed) we find prophets committing incest. Doesn't seem right for a prophet at all. Also God forgave Aaron for worshipping the calf but not his people. That doesn't make a Just God. Muslims believe Aaron warned his people not to worship the calf made by a man called Samiri but they did not listen. They did regret it after and all were forgiven but not Samiri as he was not remorseful. This is a Just God.
The alterations in the Bible and other religious scriptures leads to confusion and this is probably why there are so many Atheists in the world but people are not attaining happiness. Suicide rates are at their highest.
Islam's simple message is that we are here on this earth for a short amount of time. Don't befriend satan the enemy. Worship Allah the way He has told us to via His book and His Messengers and that will lead to His happiness which will lead us to Paradise.
Not all the nonsense in the media about wars and fighting. A Muslim can't even hurt a dog or kill a tree in war. Children and women are off limits. This is very different to what world leaders are saying nowadays about war where they accept kids need to be caught up in the killing to achieve their goal. Whatever the goal is.
As for seeing God, we can't look at the sun with our own eyes so we will not be able to comprehend the light of God in this world. In paradise however, we will see God. And that will be the ultimate gift.
Adam and Eve - We believe they both ate from the forbidden tree together as tricked by Satan. It was not Eve's fault. They immediately regretted it and asked for forgiveness and God forgave them. He also warned them against Satan the enemy. And that was that. No one carries anyone elses sins. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. A newborn baby has a clean book. Deeds are recorded from puberty onwards. That is why when a person converts to Islam, all their past sins are forgiven as if they were a newborn baby. An innocent man does not have to be sacrifices for everyone else's sins.
Ahmed Deedat, although quite to the point has a lot of videos on YouTube which explain Islam and Christianity.
Maybe something to think about.

Madhairday · 02/12/2019 20:20

It sounds like you're on a journey, OP, and that you are broadly aligned with Christianity. Out of interest, what is it about Jesus you are not sold on - you don't have to say, of course! But you're welcome to discuss it here if you would find it helpful. It sounds like you are drawn to the Bible, particularly the OT, and so many Christians have found that the OT is always pointing to Jesus in a myriad of ways. Like a pp said you might find an alpha or Christianity explored useful to clarify some of your thoughts and a place to raise your questions.

Many - possibly most? Christians are not young earth creationists and find science and Christianity completely compatible - in fact, complementary. For me, using reason is very important to me and something I find rooted deep in my faith and scripture.

Babba, it's really interesting to hear about Muslim beliefs, thank you. I have a lot of things to say about what you said but probably best for the OP not to go into them now - perhaps just for clarification, though, Jesus referred to himself by messianic names and by names unique to the claims of divinity all the time (not just in John's gospel). As an NT scholar there's no doubt in my mind he thought of himself as God and that the concept of the trinity originated in his teachings, and was being taught to the early church even in pre-Pauline times, as evidenced in the earliest creeds. It's all fascinating stuff! :)

ZenNudist · 03/12/2019 23:25

@Madhairday Id love to hear more about Jesus and what he said about being son of God. I believe but so often find it all confusing.

OP sorry to hijack.

speakout · 04/12/2019 07:37

OP research as much as you can.
Even what "god" means.
Is he the Abrahamic kind- a creator to be feared and stands in judgement? Is she a metaphor for life energy? Do they exist in all life or other forms of matter as Spinoza and others suggest?
Is the divine muti faceted as in Hindu or other polytheistic religions?
I am a deeply spiritual person, I belong to no religion, I call myself an atheist, yet I work with deity.

Do you need a religion to walk a spiritual path at all?

I would urge you to read as much as you can about diffeternt points of view.

marmiteandmarmalade · 04/12/2019 09:01

You can't say you are a Christian if you aren't 'sold on Jesus' because a Christian is someone who follows Jesus. If it's the Old Testament that you associate with but don't believe that Jesus is God then Judaism would be the closest faith.
But do you need a label? It sounds as though you believe in a God and are enjoying reading and discovering what is important to you. Continue on your own journey of faith and see where it leads.

Madhairday · 04/12/2019 16:06

Hello @ZenNudist - happy to explore it a little, but probably won't go into too much depth here so as not to derail things too much for the OP :) It is a really interesting area, though. It's always so important to remember how people living in C1 Palestine would have heard the words Jesus said, and also how they would have interpreted his actions. He made explicit and implicit claims to divinity (and not just any divinity, but to the God of the Jews, the God these people worshipped).

When he went round healing people, he was making an implicit claim, but he so often went further by claiming to have authority to forgive sin and to exorcise demons - his audience would have believed only God has authority to do this, so would have recognised that Jesus was claiming to be one with God. He also made claims about himself which were both resonant and consistent with OT theology and scripture, especially the 'I am' sayings - The use of I am would have been particularly inflammatory because of the way he used it - not only in the 'I am the Light of the world' etc but in his use of 'before Abraham was, I am' in John 8 - using present tense to represent the fact he is eternal, and also referring to the name the Israelites knew God as - Yahweh, recalling God speaking to moses in the burning bush. because of this the crowd tried to stone Jesus - they thought his words to be blasphemy because they were so obviously claims to divinity.

In addition to this, Jesus made direct claims calling himself the Son of God and Son of Man. It's often argued these were merely ways of expressing an affinity with the Jews as children of God, but in actuality these were well-known messianic claims. Son of Man was an expression used in the OT book of Daniel when Daniel had a vision of God on the throne of heaven, so by using this name the audience would have been left in little doubt that Jesus was claiming to be not only the messiah but God himself.

He also answered questions pertaining to his status as son of God in the affirmative. His statements throughout the gospels reveal that he had this self-understanding from early on, right through his ministry - from his visit to the temple as a boy through to his statment in John 3:16 that God so loved the world that he sent his only son. He also uses parables to make claims that he is the son of God, for example the parable of the vineyard owner in Mark 12 - he speaks here of the son as revered above prophets. He also received worship without rebuking the worshippers.

We see so many times from the response of the people and especially the authorities that Jesus was making claims above and beyond being a child or prophet of God. That, his use of explicity messianic language, his use of parables, his actions and outright claims all point towards a self-understanding as both human and divine, as the son of the Father who came into the world to reconcile the world through his death and resurrection.

Sorry - have wittered a little.

NiteFlights · 13/12/2019 09:57

Hi OP, can I recommend a book ‘A Little History of Religion’ by Richard Holloway. It focuses more on Judaism and Christianity than other world religions but is really helpful in giving a sort of holistic view of the evolution of religion in different cultures.

I personally believe that we should seek God within the religious tradition we know/were brought up in, rather than converting, as there is no one or right way to seek Him and no one religion is intrinsically better than another. But that’s just a personal view really.

I have found myself increasingly comfortable in an Anglo-Catholic church although my beliefs probably align more with the Quakers. Anglicanism is a broad church!!! One of the reasons I like it. But if you are not sold on Jesus it may not be a good fit for you. I go to a Bible study group at church and can tell the others all ‘believe’ way more than I do! But I get a lot out of it.

Good luck in your searching OP.

speakout · 13/12/2019 12:41

NiteFlights

Interesting you see all religions as equal- does that extend to animism and polytheism too?

I ask because the nature of the divine varies so hugely when we step outside Abrahamic faiths. Some faiths may worship a pantheon of gods and godesses, some worship animals.
Some faiths consider the human spirit to be the divine force, with no extrinsic god at all.

Is this all god? All the same?

BertrandRussell · 13/12/2019 12:45

I would go to a few Quaker meetings if I were you. See how they feel.

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