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Philosophy/religion

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What if I don't want eternal life? Any Christians about?

27 replies

EmancipateYourself · 06/10/2019 07:36

I don't want to eternal life, nor do I want to be saved. When my time comes, I just want to die and go to ashes, with there being no further consciousness.

I feel I have always had God's presence with me, and that at the end of the day judgement can/will only ever come from God. I'm a good person, I believe in the lessons of Christ Jesus, I live by the ten commandments.

Does this make me any less of a Christian than others who have asked for salvation/redemption? Why should I go to hell because I do not want eternal life?

What does this make me? Agnostic?

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happyasasandboy · 06/10/2019 07:57

I think the term "Everlasting Life" is open to interpretation.

I am a Christian, but also very much a scientist. When people die, I truly believe that their bodies return the the earth, and their soul lives on only in the memories of others and the mark they have made in the earth.

To me, "Life everlasting" means that your body, your actions, your legacy, is part of the world system.

EmancipateYourself · 06/10/2019 08:07

@happyasasandboy I've been told that you cannot be Christian if you do not ask Christ for salvation (and therefore receive eternal life).

Recently, I have also been told that the Bible is objective, not subjective. So not open interpretation?

Confused
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TheBitchOfTheVicar · 06/10/2019 08:19

Recently, I have also been told that the Bible is objective, not subjective. So not open interpretation?

Well, that's one way of looking at it. But it isn't the only way, as many Christians would tell you.

picklemepopcorn · 06/10/2019 08:27

The bible says very little about what life eternal actually is. It says very little about Hell, as well. Accepting Jesus as your saviour is more about how we live now than about after death. It's about living life with him as the focus.

I'd be surprised if you found life after death problematic, tbh.

EmancipateYourself · 06/10/2019 08:32

Thank you @TheBitch

"By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you love one another."

The church I am currently attending contradicts the above - Basically, it does not matter how much of a good person you are, you cannot be Christian if you do not want to receive salvation, and eternal life.

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madcatladyforever · 06/10/2019 08:36

I'd be happy with eternal life once all the cares of my human body are gone. I believe everything we are in life is gone and we are elevated to a status of pure light, a completely different existence.

donquixotedelamancha · 06/10/2019 08:36

I have also been told that the Bible is objective, not subjective.

That is not really a Christian point of view. The offshoots of Christianity which believe this are very recent inventions.

The NT was compiled hundreds of years after JC's death by Christianity. The OT was written for a completely different context and most of its laws that are kept by Jews are held to be overturned by Christians.

If you take the Bible literally then there are two creation stories (genesis), you should not eat prawns or pork and you should be going into the desert to burn two pigeons every time you have a period (Leviticus).

milliefiori · 06/10/2019 08:36

Swap church! There's enough variety in Christian worship not to have to stick with a church that has a rigid doctrine you don't follow.

I know what you mean about eternal life. Doesn't appeal to me either. I like a deadline.

EmancipateYourself · 06/10/2019 08:41

@pickle If I do not want salvation, then I perhaps I am not Christian/accept Christ as my saviour. Because I don't want saving. I believe that God has saved me already, in the way that I have overcome much difficulty in my life.

But apparently I have to make a public announcement (it to be witnessed) that I want to be saved, and ask for salvation. When in truth, I believe this is a private matter between God and myself, and that I have already received salvation in life.

Tbh, I struggle with the concept of the Holy trinity too.

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EmancipateYourself · 06/10/2019 08:46

I'm not sure where I fit into Christianity. My faith certainly does not fit in with the church I've been attending.

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EmancipateYourself · 06/10/2019 09:15

That might have come across muddled - I do not want salvation or to be witnessed as being saved, because I believe I already have been and that that is a private matter between God and I.

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picklemepopcorn · 06/10/2019 11:43

I'd agree 'being saved' has nothing to do with public proclamations at church. Sometimes churches celebrate people's commitment with a service like a confirmation service.

The trinity is hard to get your head round- frankly, I think anyone who says they 'get it', probably doesn't!

Have you tried a mainstream Anglican Church? Are you in the U.K.?

babba2014 · 06/10/2019 11:56

I'm not a Christian but religions are basically part of my daily interactions due to work etc.
As a Muslim we don't have the concept of dying for our sins and salvation/redemption like in Christianity. I believe Jesus is a Messenger of God who didn't die but was raised to heaven and will return. So the last part is the same. The concept of sins is that Adam and Eve were forgiven (they both are from the forbidden tree and it wasn't the fault of one). In turn, every person is responsible for his/her own actions. If a lesson commits a sin, they pray directly to God and ask for forgiveness and God forgives as long as you are sincere. Things like this pleases God and ultimately God's happiness with us will result in eternal life in Paradise where there will be no fear or grief and only happiness. It will also be when we get to see God.

Perhaps you need to explore the different lines of Christianity and see if they fit with your belief.

I have also heard from Christians as someone mentioned above about the Bible not mentioning much about the hereafter. The Bible is not in its original form so things have been omitted over time. On the other hand in Islam there is a lot, a huge amount about the hereafter. Both heaven and hell. Or even before that, what happens in the grave, what happens on the day of judgement, how people will enter heaven/hell, the doors and gates of heaven and hell, the angels who are standing guard there etc etc. mostly found in the hadith.

Your belief in being saved already fits in with believers of Jesus before the name Christianity came about. If you look way way back you will find the believers of Jesus did not believe in the trinity.

I think you are on a journey and that is to explore Christianity before it was even called Christianity, to explore Judaism before it was called Judaism and other faiths and even Islam away from the media. You will find that the original beliefs fit more in line with what you believe. Eg the ten commandments state about God not having an image yet in many places of worship there is an image of Jesus and a statue of Mary. Keep looking and praying and you will find your place x

mostlydrinkstea · 06/10/2019 12:29

It sounds like you are in conservative Protestant church. Other denominations are available. In many denominations you don't have to make a public declaration of faith other than saying the creed in the service which starts 'we believe' rather than ' I believe' which is always a relief on a wobbly day.

If you are not comfortable where you are try your local Anglican or Methodist or URC or Quakers.

EmancipateYourself · 06/10/2019 12:56

Thank you @babba2014 thank you all. I am on a journey and I won't let people get in the way of my faith.

I trust God's plan for me, and imo that in itself is faith.

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babba2014 · 06/10/2019 13:12

Amazing sentences EmancipateYourself
Look at what the tenants of faith say and not what people say or do as nowadays there are a lot of people misrepresenting the true aspects of faith.
I love your last line. If you keep praying to God He will surely guide you until you reach the point where you are truly content with your belief. May God make it a smooth journey.

picklemepopcorn · 06/10/2019 14:09

@mostlydrinkstea, I'd never thought of that! Or if I did, I'd forgotten. Very comforting!

ZenNudist · 07/10/2019 21:10

Eternal life isn't what Im in it for either. Im a Christian because I want a relationship with God.

I think you need to come to terms with Jesus. To me saying the (Catholic) creed "I believe" is enough of a 'confession" of faith as it says in Romans:

"...if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."[5]12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."[6]"

Make of that what you will.

I dont believe in the infallibility of the bible. So maybe Im a bad Christian.

I recently finished Timothy Keller "the reason for God" which I found very helpful.

Tom Wright (NT Wright) wrote "surprised by hope" which is about the christian belief in bodily resurrection in Christ and renewal of creation and the coming of heaven here on earth. Interesting popular (easy to read) theology. Good food for thought.

EmancipateYourself · 08/10/2019 18:29

Thank you for the recommendation for further reading, @ZenNudist

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SilverViking · 10/10/2019 09:09

It sounds like your current church is Evangelical / Reformed tradition .... and being Saved or Born Again is central to their belief and worship. Indeed, many churches like that redefine a Christian as being someone Born Again or "Having a personal relationship with Jesus" and may pronounce other "self defined Christians" as "non-Christians" (e.g. Catholics).

There are many Christian denominations, and each are based on following Jesus and what is written in the bible. Each denomination is different in what is most important to them ... and often the bible is interpreted in different ways to have different meaning.

It sound like you need to visit a few local churches to "try on" and see which one you fit into best.

God Bless and good luck finding somewhere to help you grow and find contentment in practising your faith!

Madhairday · 10/10/2019 13:03

I like both those books, @ZenNudist - especially NT Wright's Surprised by Hope, which very much reframes the whole idea of a kind of floaty disembodied heaven where we sit around for eternity (not to mention the idea of hell as eternal, conscious torment.) I like the way he writes of our redemption/salvation as something as much for the now as the not yet - as something transformative which changes communities and brings the kingdom to earth, rather than being focused only on 'going to heaven' - and then about how God's plan as expressed in scripture is to restore and heal, to renew the earth, to bring hope where we are rather than only in where we might end up.

The idea of eternity is a difficult one to get our heads around, isn't it. If I think about it too long it blows my mind, and I think no, thanks, I don't want to be never ending. But that's only in my experience of temporal things, and the idea that God is outside time is helpful - therefore his plan for humanity is ultimately to be part of that, where there will be no more pain, mourning etc, but we have no idea what it will look like. As a Christian, though, I do find hope for the future sustaining, in terms of eternity, because my experience of God is of absolute, unconditional love, and peace beyond understanding, and sometimes incredible joy ('joy unspeakable', C S Lewis called it.) Therefore I know these are what God longs for us as humans to know in full - it says in one of the epistles (can't remember which offhand) that we see through a glass darkly, and will one day see in full, and everything will become clear.

As well as that, the idea of justice is so very compelling, of all that has been done that is evil being held to account, of all those who have been abused and oppressed and hated and lessened recieving justice, at last. It's something that can be very sustaining for those living in really difficult situations.

I do think faith is sustaining for this life, but hope gives us a glimpse of what could be, too, and I know and trust that the God who loves so passionately will bring us into something we can't even imagine, but will be beautiful and just and exciting. I don't tend to spend too much time thinking about it, though, because there are things that matter far more in this life, like feeding the hungry and setting the oppressed free, like forgiving and reconciling, and like pursuing my worship of and relationship with God in the now where I am, even though that is so often very painful.

It's great that you're on a journey and thinking about these things. I do find that scripture points so often to that hope, and that brings an extra kind of peace, a soothing in our deepest places, a sense of rest in the storm.

StressedOuta · 10/10/2019 13:07

I read somewhere ages ago that at the moment you die you know the answer to all life's questions - has anyone else read similar as I haven't been able to find where I saw it.

PurBal · 10/10/2019 21:27

I believe in eternal salvation.

I agree with PP about interpretation. Christians talk about eternal life when really they mean atonement or at-one-ness.

eastmidsmum · 13/10/2019 18:14

To be forever with the one person who loves us perfectly (Jesus), sounds good to me! To be doing what we were created for (praising and loving Him) and to be doing that with a great throng of beings doing the same, sounds great!

eastmidsmum · 13/10/2019 18:18

It also rather depends on what you believe the alternative to eternal life is. The Bible has quite a lot to say about Heaven and Hell, which can be interpreted literally or figuratively but either way present us with a stark choice.

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