Interfaith relationship - fifteen year old me would love the drama...

[Sarnianflutterby]

...but I just feel sick. Looking more for a vent here than advice as I’m not ready to discuss this IRL yet.
So DP and I have been together 7 and a half months. I knew at the start he was Muslim but he never talked about religion, does lots of haram things, basically I had the impression that it was more cultural than real belief. Wrong of me to make assumptions but I was raised without religion, most of the people I know are atheist, I tend to forget people believe. It was only in the lead up to Ramadan, when even more lax Muslims tend to get more in touch with their faith, that we talked about it more and I realised that whilst he’s never going to win a prize for Most Strictest Muslim, he does believe and his faith is important to him. Absolutely fine, I’ve started studying more about Islam, I fasted for Ramadan for the first couple of weeks (then he left to go visit family for the last two weeks so I stopped after that!) and I’ve really enjoyed getting to know the religious side of him. I’m from a small community, mostly white, dominant religion is Christianity so it’s all new.
So now the issue. I knew he hadn’t told his parents about us.
His mum he thinks would be cool with it, but his dad is very old school - rules with an iron fist, fairly typical in many cultures really but not something I’ve personally experienced. Raised it again today, basically asked if they even knew I existed at all, never mind as a girlfriend - no, they don’t. He then admitted that he could see his dad cutting him off entirely for being with me because I’m not Muslim.
But he’s adamant that I’m not to convert just to appease his dad. I’ve actually been feeling a very vague pull towards religion since I’ve started studying Islam but I’ve not told DP as I don’t want him to get his hopes up (something he once said makes me think he secretly hopes I will believe and convert) cos it’s only a slight feeling, I don’t know if I’m really starting to believe or if it’s just that I want to be part of his world.
And tbh, whilst DP thinks it’s my (lack of) religion rather than my race that will infuriate his dad, I personally suspect that a white convert will not be the right type of Muslim for him.
Tbh from what little he’s said of his dad, I’m not sure if any one would be the right person - he sounds like he just generally doesn’t like anyone who isn’t family or want his children to have any kind of a life outside of the family.
It’s just so hard. Teenage me would love the drama but I just feel sad and sick. From what I’ve heard of his mum and sister I think we’d get on really well but I don’t know if we will ever even meet. And if we do, will there just be this cloud over us from his oppressive dad? I have daydreams of us going to visit his family for Eid and having a lovely time but would his family even want anything to do with me?
My family have welcomed him with open arms (even if secretly
I think they are probably more wary of him than they are letting on) and we have meals out and all sorts together, it makes me so sad to think that I won’t have that with his family.
It makes me sad for him too - he wants to tell them but he doesn’t know how. When he is home with me we are in a bubble but it can’t last forever. I dream of our wedding but will it ever happen?
He gets back in a week and a half and we are going to talk about it more as today was all over WhatsApp. DP definitely needs to start being more honest with me, he tends to put off discussions he thinks will upset me.
Ok. Not sure how long this is but I’ve typed through the first fifteen minutes of BGT so must be fairly lengthy...well done to anyone who has gotten this far...

Are you young enough that children might be part of your future?
If so I would caution you to be honest.

I’m 32 but we both have very strong opinions about not wanting children, and that was how we both felt before we even met.

I'd think long and hard about it tbh. My parents are different religions and my Mum says if she knew then what she does now she wouldn't go through it again. The disapproval and being treated like a second class citizen because she wasn't from her religion was relentless.

Hi. Fellow Muslim here! I'm saying this not because I'm judging or anything but because I have some understanding of the predicament you're in.

To me, there's a couple of red flags here - your DP doesn't want to have a serious conversation about your future and he hasn't introduced you or mentioned you to any of his family despite being happy to integrate with yours. You're not a dirty secret, and you deserve the recognition as his partner.

It's really nice of you to read and show an interest in his religion, but let's seperate that for the time being - would he be with you long term as a non-muslim? If his dad made his choose between you and his Muslim family, how would you deal with that? I know situations like this where the non Muslim partner has had a lot of heartache and guilt, especially if they're close to their own family (which it seems you are). It's not as easy as cutting people off. You're early days, so it might feel like a lot but there's a lot at stake. If it's serious, hopefully he'll have the guts for a sensible conversation about it all, and if he isn't ready for that - maybe that's what you need to know where the future of your relationship lies.

Will you ever be enough.

Whether you convert to Islam or he gives up his religion (which from what you said it sounds like he isnt completely committed)

I think ultimately if it is this complicated and you have only just started I would be walking away.

@picklepickle123 you’re right, there’s a lot at stake. I’m only really starting to see it now as he’s held so much to his chest. He is very clear that he wants to be with me and that he wants to tell his family. He is just not sure how to deal with it due to the way he thinks his dad will react. It’s something we need to have a real discussion about when he is back. I’ve told him he needs to stop keeping things back from me so we can tackle things together. It’s just so easy to live in our little bubble when he is here and we can do what we want, as there’s no way for his family to know. He agrees that it’s unfair to me that his family don’t know me. I think he will step up and tell them but it’s clearly going to be a bigger issue than I had initially thought. It’s just such a learning curve, as everything about this situation is so new to me.

Just some additional thoughts - even if he tells his parents about you, what kind of life do you expect to love with him? Living together before marriage isn't really a done thing in Muslim communities, and there would be an expectation that you're children are Muslim too.

I think what I'm trying to say is that this relationship will be fairly complex and you'll need to make some unpopular decisions (sometimes with your family and sometimes with his) - you need a real strong relationship to be able to make it last.

In terms of children, neither of us think that’s something we want but if we changed our minds, I wouldn’t have any issue with them being raised Muslim.

With living together, even tho it’s not the done thing, as I said upthread we are in a bit of a bubble when he’s here so we can really do what we like. I basically live at his on weekends. The downside of this is that there’s no real push for him to take the step and change.

It’s definitely going to be more complex than I realised and I am worried but I’m also confident in us as a couple. I’m just not sure how it’s all going to play out.

If he's Pakistani muslim do not do it. You get treated like absolute shit. Been there. Twice.

neither of us think that’s something we want but if we changed our minds, I wouldn’t have any issue with them being raised Muslim

Really. You would have no issue if you had a girl and a boy with them being treated differently?

I have been abroad recently and felt very sorry for the Muslim girls and women. Their husbands and boys were dressed in shorts and t.shirts. 30+ degree heat.
The girls were covered head to foot in black. Last year doing the same trip I saw a toddler try and remove her head covering and her mother keep putting it back on her head. You could tell she was hot and uncomfortable. Her brother was dressed for the weather.

live in our little bubble

Be aware that this might be all that you can really have together. Have his parents started to pressurise him to have kids yet ?

Everyone is different , but a very close friend had a lot of heartache when it turned out she could just just about be accepted as s girlfriend, but only because they assumed he would throw her over when the time came to get married and have children.

This is why many people have problems with other cultures, they don’t want to integrate, if your parents objected to him, everyone would be shouting racist, the other way round not so much.

If you are only 7 1/2 months into this relationship and you are already describing it as a drama I think you should step away and not waste any more time.

That advice would be to anyone and has nothing to do with any interfaith issues.

What ever the issues you have there shouldn’t be this much angst at this stage.

This is the honeymoon stage of a relationship when everything is supposed to be rosy.
If you are forseeing problems, looking into having to convert religion whether you want to or not and you are asking on here because you are feeling sick of what the future might hold there seems to be problems now.

Living in a bubble is all well and good but this relationship isn’t really going anywhere and I think deep down something is telling you it isn’t workable.

Atm it is nice and comfortable because you only see each other and your parents.

I think because things are new you are imagining a lot about how things could be but the reality could be very different.

Yes you could well get along with his mum and sister but more than likely (friend married a “lax Muslim guy”) if you did go round to his parents house for Eid you would end up being very lonely because you don’t speak Arabic or they would be welcoming and then after the wedding it could all change.

Friend spent 20 years in an Interfaith marriage with a “lax” Muslim guy.

Told my friend about this thread. As she is 20 years down the line
She honed in on the “living in a bubble” aspect. It was the same sort of beginning she had. She said it was like she was lulled into a false sense of security.

He would come round to her flat and they would stay in. Or they would go round to her parents. Everything seemed exciting and she thought she was going to make friends with his family.

Her advice is to run.

Now exh got her flat in the divorce.

Wow...some pretty horrible generalisations on here. Also, it doesn't sound like DP's family live in the country so I'm not sure why they're being expected to integrate There are over a billion Muslims in the world of all colours and stripes so I think it's important not to extrapolate too much.

OP, I think there's a few questions for you. Since you're not interested in having kids that takes some pressure off but you should probably have a serious discussion about what kind of sway the father holds? Would he be able to control who DP marries? Would DP be with a partner his father didn't approve of?

It sounds like a tricky situation but also not like his family pose any immediate challenges which is a positive.

And by immediate challenges I mean he's not someone who still lives at home full time or is in a dependent position.

If you are only 7 1/2 months into this relationship and you are already describing it as a drama I think you should step away and not waste any more time.

Agreed. This is a very new relationship, and you acknowledge yourself that you currently 'live in a bubble', as his family aren't close by. He is a very different person to the person you assumed he was an atheist not unlike you but from a Muslim background and your faint pull towards Islam (again, as you acknowledge yourself) is more or less the religious equivalent of a teenage girl getting terribly enthusiastic about and reading up on her new boyfriend's favourite band.

Be realistic his father won't want your boyfriend to stay single. He will almost certainly have someone suitable possibly a cousinor other family connection -- lined up as a prospective wife, and this conversation about marriage is probably going on right now, as part of the family life you don't get to see. You're only able to live in your bubble as you do because his family is far away, and he doesn't seem to have been honest about his beliefs and the extent to which he is still invested in his family and culture.

I think you should end it before you get any more hurt.

my sister's married to a Pakistani Muslim and no she does not get treated like shit at all!
That being said it hasn't been easy at times because there's so many differences between the families however they make it work and the family treat her like they treat thier daughter. They all pray and fast etc but no one in the family wears headscarf but at the same time they are expected to dress conservatively men included. so short sleeve are ok but no legs showing or cleavage.
I guess s my point is that it can work but it depends how strict the family is really

Certain cultures who are predominately Muslim won't give a toss if youre the most practicing, pious, religious woman. If you are a different race you will still be judged and discriminated against.
I had been a Muslim before meeting my current DH (Pakistani), took nearly 2 years to win his family over because I was white and even now, having been together 4 years and a child on the way, I still won't attend family functions due to the constant judging, I prefer to keep it that way though as I like a quiet life. There's a famous saying in said communities which you would of probably heard or will inevitably hear in the future - " what will people think?" ..Everything is about reputation and respect.
BUT please, don't confuse culture with religion, Islam is beautiful just unfortunately it's biggest representatives aren't the greatest at showing it.
Don't be disheartened that at 7 1/2 months in you are still in your own little bubble, it is complex and can take time.
Sorry though I do have to ask, are you sure there isn't a wife he may have back home and that's the reason why he's so hesitant? Seen many women fall in this trap and have the shock of their lives!

Sorry though I do have to ask, are you sure there isn't a wife he may have back home and that's the reason why he's so hesitant? Seen many women fall in this trap and have the shock of their lives!

That had also occurred to me, only I've mostly seen it when living in the ME, when men first married the family-approved cousin/family connection and then, after a few children, having fulfilled family expectations, took a foreign, non-Muslim second wife -- quite often got incredibly messy.

Friend found out her dh had a wife and children and wanted to bring his original family into the country.

Only way was friend needed to earn over a certain amount (she didn’t) or there is a line in the rulings that say he would have to be her carer.
Friend had an accident (caused by him) and became so disabled she will never walk again.
Not saying it was deliberate but he got his visa to remain based on the fact he was her carer

The problems are cultural more than religious so a lot depends on where his parents are from. In many countries (and this goes across religions) the father will insist on an appropriate bride at some point or they will cut him off - and culturally this is a huge thing. He's obviously enjoying his carefree western lifestyle with you but until he comes clean with his family I will assume he's not serious about the relationship.

Sorry for the worry you are having
My Mil and her husband were born in ireland, 1 protestant and 1 Catholic, their entire family disowned them when they got married and they left Ireland to live in England and never saw the family again

I think the issue here is not being able to stand up to his parents. The amount of pressure, guilt-tripping, emotional blackmail some Asian parents put onto their children is heart-breaking. My own Pakistani husband still lives in fear of his parents. They are very accepting of me, despite me not being of their culture, because I am a strictly practicing Muslim and know more about the faith than they do even, although they too are learned. They know that Muslims come in all shapes, sizes and colours. For most Asian families I'll be honest, the problem is the race not the faith. They'd rather him marry a non practicing Asian women from the same background, than a white practicing Muslim women. It it very much about 'what people will think' especially from the more traditional cultural families.

Unless he is prepared to stand up to his parents now, you'll always always be on the losing side, as many battles along the way will come up culturally (many Pakistani's themselves cannot differentiate between culture and faith) and he'll never be able to back you up. You will likely feel excluded, 'not good enough', judged and second rate. I'm sorry but that has been the experience of many of those in my social circle.

He could well be married already, with a wife living at his parents home, it happens very very frequently. It might be that he doesn't love or care for the wife at home (if there is one) but it would largely have been done to keep his parent's quiet.

I'd give him the ultimatum; if you haven't been introduced to his family by x amount of time, then you will have to walk away. You need evidence that you come first, or you will never ever win in this situation.