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Original poster

Why are christian churches so middle class?

31 replies

Roseylea · 05/07/2007 12:46

Following on from a thread about social class...

Why is the church (in all its myriad forms!) so blimmin' middle class? Does being a christian in british culture equate with adopting middle class values, habits, speech patterns etc?

Is it because the assumption exists (wrongly IMO) that being a chrstian requires a certain level of literacy and education? Or is just that this is what the church has made it? (I doubt that all of the disciples would have been able to read and write...)

And how can christians make the church an open and welcoming place for all ergardless of class?

OP posts:
meandmyflyingmachine · 05/07/2007 12:47

My RC church isn't 'middle class'. It's a pretty mixed bag.

Marina · 05/07/2007 12:48

Neither is my suburban C of E church

EffiePerine · 05/07/2007 12:50

Erm, depends on your definition of 'Christian'. COfE probably is pretty middle class, certainly in terms of its hierachy. Catholic churches tend (IME) to be far more mixed, due to history of catholicism in this country (mixture of upper classes/Oxford movement and working class Irish/NW catholics plus a few more to be going on with).

So for example if you went to a local high COfE service it would be pretty much middle class. If you went to a Catholic service in the same town it would be mostly working class with a few middle class people.

EffiePerine · 05/07/2007 12:51

and nonconformist churches (IME) not middle class at all

FioFio · 05/07/2007 12:51

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FioFio · 05/07/2007 12:52

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Original poster
Roseylea · 05/07/2007 12:53

Round here the churches are very middle class, even ones in working class areas. By that I guess I mean that the churches are peopled by very middle class people.

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Original poster
Roseylea · 05/07/2007 12:54

THat's good Fiofio!

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FioFio · 05/07/2007 12:54

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FioFio · 05/07/2007 12:54

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ShinyHappyPeopleHoldingHands · 05/07/2007 12:56

I have to say my church is very middle class. But they don't seem to mind me not being at all!

OrmIrian · 05/07/2007 12:58

CofE was once called the Tory party at prayer. And in my parents church that is still very much the case. Large village, quite well off, middle-class and largely middle-aged church. My SIL's church is in a seaside town with it's share of council estates and social problems - and I would say it's a good mixture. Ditto my MILs church - she's 76 and a regular street pastor. In all cases their support for each other is wonderful - and as Fio suggests for all types of problems. I sometimes wish I could find a faith from somewhere, just for the sense of community and pastoral care they seem to have.

morningpaper · 05/07/2007 13:02

I haven't found that churches are middle class at all TBH, they are pretty mixed

What kind of examples, Roseylea?

bundle · 05/07/2007 13:03

where we live the CofE church appears to be quite a lot more middle class than the RC one

SueBaroo · 05/07/2007 13:48

It's not been my experience across the board, tbh. I can see why it might be the case in some CofE parishes perhaps, but not all Christianity is CofE.

fedupwithallthispaperwork · 05/07/2007 14:05

my church is very very middle class, but as ive got older these things dont bother me anymore. the church needs to change and to start thinking about its young people and i think the more mixed bag it gets, the better it will be.

bobsmum · 05/07/2007 16:48

I think it maybe applies more to the historically established church like the Anglicans and the Church of Scotland. Independent churches and smaller denominations often get more of a mixture. Also in urban areas rather than the suburbs.

My previous Church of Scotland in the centre of Glasgow was definitely "working" class. There were a few middle class folks in there, but they were definitely in the minority.

Now I worship at a Baptist church. It was independent until we changed the name a few months back in order to be more transparent and less of an unknown quantity.

There are only 30 or so of us and we have every sort of life background from families with kids at Eton to plumbers and carpenters and then there's us with middle class accents (I'm a posh wegie), but not the lifestyle

Original poster
Roseylea · 05/07/2007 17:26

Sorry Fio - we had a nits crisis earlier so I had to go and de-louse my dc!

I live in Hertfordshire. It is pretty mixed socially. My church is CofE so maybe it is just a CofE thing. Although there is a local Baptist church tho, in our v. working class community, and the church people there are so middle class compared to the local population generally (not a criticism, just an observation). I know that some locals are put off by feeling that they are 'not good enough' for the church, which is not at all how it should be, and actually the church people are trying really hard to integrate and reach out to locals.

I guess the 'am I good enough for MN?' thread got me thinking about people who may feel that socially 'not good enough' for the church. Do you think people really feel like this or am I just projecting my paranoia onto innocent bystanders?

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purpleturtle · 05/07/2007 17:38

I think that any community tends to attract like-minded people, so a middle-class church will attract middle-class, or aspiring middle-class people. So I guess that some people would be put off if they felt they wouldn't fit in. And given that no church is perfect, I guess there are churches out there that are pretty unwelcoming to people who appear to be different.

Sometimes churches have put a bit more emphasis on how people behave - they are not allowed to belong until they first behave and believe, quite possibly in that order. I think that the churches who put belong, believe, behave in that order tend to be more ready to accept people and their differences.

bobsmum · 05/07/2007 17:48

I suppose the tradtitional set up of a service isn't very welcoming in a lot of churches.

You file in, find a seat, there's a bit of quiet chatter then a hush. Everyone faces in one direction as if in school again.

In some services you might be expected to be able to read either some prayers or songs. If you struggle with reading then you'll stand out unless you "know" the order of things. That presupposes a background of attending church.

I wasn't allowed to go to church until I was 18. I'd only ever set foot through the doors of a church for school or Brownie services and it was completely alien to me.

I didn't know which bits to join in, when to stand etc. Obviously in a reformed church there's a lot less to "learn" or recite than in an Anglican or Catholic church, but there were still bits like the Lord's Prayer and a couple of sung Amens here and there.

So my unease wasn't because of my class or level of education. It was about the assumptions of club membership.

I've been to other churches since (my centre of Glasgow one is ace at this) where things are explained before they happen. Either in the bit of paper given out at the door, or by someone up the front.

And everything is always prefaced with something like "We will all..." or "If you are able to..." etc.

On the other hand I've been to more traditional churches having been a Christian for years where I've felt alike a fish out of water (no pun intended!). I've felt like a gatecrasher or like I'm attending aservice for a different faith altogether!

I supsect IME,the biggest barrier to anyone walking into a church service is having never been to one before and not knowing what's going to happen, rather than a class thing.

bobsmum · 05/07/2007 17:50

Good point about behaviour PT

Original poster
Roseylea · 05/07/2007 19:12

Wow Bobsmum - I didn't know about your not being allowed to go to church until you were 18. Were your parents worried that you would be brainwashed? Mine were v. v. suspicious when I became a christian aged 13, but after a visit from the minister they relaxed a bit! And they became christians too! What do yours think about your going to church now?

I take your point about the intimidation of not knowing what is going to happen in a service. When we were married one of dh's friends was genuinely really nervous about being in a church and he was paranoid he'd do something stupid. (He didn't!)

Belong - believe - behave...I like that! In some churches it's almost the opposite - a certain behaviour is expected as soon as you walk through the door. On the contrary, Jesus accepted all sorts of outcasts.

Well I am glad that most of you think the church isn't that middle class! Not that there's anything wrong with middle class of course...we just need all types there...

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SueBaroo · 05/07/2007 19:15

hoists up mog and pitches her into the gathered crowd of pigeons

I'm not sure it's possible to 'belong' to church before you believe, though, is it? Unless it's just a shorthand for 'making people feel welcome' which I would imagine it is.

unknownrebelbang · 05/07/2007 19:25

None of our local churches (CoE or RC) or middle-class, but then we're a very working-class area.

Most of the church-goers I know do have a "certain level of literacy and education" though .

purpleturtle · 05/07/2007 19:37

I do use belong pretty much in the sense of making people welcome, SueBaroo. I am part of a large church which has lots of smaller groups, and there are plenty of people involved in those groups who are not yet ready to call themselves believers. A bunch of Christians having a barbecue, or discussing a novel, or going for a walk, or running a toddler group, etc etc does not have to exclude people because they don't know much about Jesus. Over time, people either decide that they want to call themselves Christian, or if they don't then they probably decide to move on from the group naturally. For whatever length of time they're hanging out with us, we'd probably say they belong to our church. It's about making something inclusive rather than exclusive, I think.

BTW Roseylea, our church is pretty middle class, but there is a small congregation that meets much more informally and helps people to learn the ropes as it were, so that if they want they can join in the main services without feeling too lost.