What would make you think someone was possessed?

[headinhands]

I've been on MN some years and occasionally the topic of possession comes up here, be it someone worries they are or a friend has told them they think they are. And posters always reassure they're not and gently suggest they seek help for their MH from a GP which is great and right.

I just wondered, if you believe in possession what would make you think someone was possessed and not suffering some type of MH crisis?

All human beings are possessed. All human beings have MH issues.

I'm heading out the door in a moment so bookmarking.

I've never thought about it, but...It would probably manifest beyond the person themselves. So one person behaving oddly, thinking oddly, feeling oddly- not possession.
Odd things happening around a person, possibly. I would expect a deep sense of unease in myself, combined with an inability to work out the source.

My mental health would be the first thing I'd question, if I was thinking this about someone else. You'd have to be very self aware, and probably if you were sure, then you are not self aware enough!

Some people I know who work in shamanic ways say they can see it in someone’s eyes.
Entities can be picked up, or can be passed down the family line or karmic.

Nothing. It would involve a belief in supernatural forces bustling about taking over people.

I think sometimes the onlooker anthropomorphises the problem. So an emotional or mental health problem is seen as 'having a demon'. I'd say that is in the eyes of the beholder, though. It isn't necessarily bad, and it can help the onlooker to be supportive. Some people can understand things better if they personalise them- the demon drink, etc. If you want to love someone despite their problematic episodes, then to see those problems as 'separate' to them can help.

It all depends on your definition of possessed. It doesn't necessarily have to be demonic. I have sat with many guru's who you could say are possessed but not in a demonic way, they have a aura that is divine, infinite, absolute, immutable, However in mainstream life they would/could be seen as not normal or unconventional.
Their possessed beingness is manifested in a non demonic way and may not be accepted in a western culture, but is very much embraced in the eastern culture.
In fact a guru's view on the egoic mind is one of insanity and their path is to teach beings to separate from the egoic mind.

In society as one PP said it is in the eye of the beholder. one person could believe they are possessed another might not.
Which brings it to MH. Could the possessed person be schizophrenic or have a personality disorder? Who is to say? Society? And which society?
A naked yogi that has given up all worldly goods including clothes and smokes marijuana. happily wandering around wouldn't be accepted in western Europe but is revered in the East.
Would western culture claim he is possessed and requires MH care if confronted in the high street?
As for people allegedly possessed as portrayed in movies. The Exorcist and Carrie spring to mind, I doubt if it is feasible. However the egoic mind is capable of wild imaginations and once those imaginations are believed who knows what a person can project.

Cases of possession are incredibly rare. In the C of E context it needs priests who are trained in this area who work in teams with psychiatrists, psychologists and other MH professionals.

Some people with MH issues use religious language. It doesn't mean that anything faith based is going on although the language may help them express something of what they feel.

Cases of possession are incredibly rare

That's interesting. I'd have thought they were more common seeing as Jesus did a lot of it and at the end of the gospels he said that anyone who believes in him would also be casting out demons. Are there less demons around?

You say that there are clergy who are trained in possession who work with mental health professionals. Do you mean NHS professionals working alongside a Vicar?

Nothing would make me believe it. What the fuck have I stumbled into here? Think I should just back away slowly.......

Head, people in Biblical times were not exactly clued-in by today’s standards of knowledge of illness. You were likely to be thought of as being ‘possessed’ if you had epilepsy, for instance, or anything that altered your behaviour. Just as in pre-modern Ireland and elsewhere, babies born with impairments or who failed to thrive were believed to be changelings — the healthy ‘real’ baby was supposedly stolen by fairies and a changeling which looked odd, or old, or which wouldn’t stop crying strangely was left in its place.

Both possession and changeling stories are pre-modern ways of thinking about things we know know about scientifically as illnesses, neurological problems and MH conditions.

I don't believe in possession in the demonic sense.

I have seen how sometimes when people are in a psychotic or disassociated state, or having epileptic fits, their features such as eyes can 'change' so people say they don't look like themselves, so it would be easy to see how the idea of being taken over from outside would take hold, and then the idea that you could also get rid of the demon (when people are much better).

I do believe some people are really quite evil though, this is not because they are possessed, they are just like that IMO.

Many of Jesus' exorcisms would have been healings, as a PP says.

I do believe in an unseen realm, and some of that realm may be negative.

I think that C of E exorcists would agree that when they get involved, much of the time they will be doing a kind of 'supercharged' faith healing. They wouldn't dismiss the possibility of there being something else going on occasionally though.

Cases of possession are incredibly rare.

I think the phrase you are looking for is non-existent. There is not one single scrap of verifiable evidence of anyone, anywhere, ever being possessed.

Mental health care is poor as is understanding.

We don't know what we don't know.

Head, people in Biblical times were not exactly clued-in by today’s standards of knowledge of illness.

If you don't think there is such a thing as possession then I guess you'd see it that way, that it was Bronze Age explanations. But if you were a believer you'd still have to wonder why there were more demons back then? And if a believer summises that Jesus called it something the people would understand then I would be asking why Jesus couldn't just have explained it was an illness and nothing to do with a demon because claiming it was supernatural only trusses up those unhelpful beliefs surely, a way of viewing mental health problems that has long caused unnecessary suffering.

Here is an article which has an interview with a C of E deliverance minister. One of our retired priests used to do this work. He always said that 99% of his work is psychological.

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/15625030.Bishoptalkssoftheeparanormalanddperformingexorcisms/

When my ex went from a warm, friendly, loving partner to a cold eyed, cruel stranger overnight. He had found someone else but I didn't know.

It was like he'd been taken over by an alien (I didn't think possession but more like invasion of the body snatchers). He looked like a stranger. His face looked different because it was showing different expressions, his eyes seemed piercing and a colder blue.

Great article, mostly.

My vicar was called on to go and investigate something recently. She took someone with her, as she didn't know what she would be walking into.

If you don't think there is such a thing as possession then I guess you'd see it that way, that it was Bronze Age explanations. But if you were a believer you'd still have to wonder why there were more demons back then? And if a believer summises that Jesus called it something the people would understand then I would be asking why Jesus couldn't just have explained it was an illness and nothing to do with a demon

I don't think religious belief makes any difference. 'Possession' is an archaic term used as an explanation of behaviours we now know are caused by neurological conditions, illness, or MH problems. It doesn't mean that the behaviours it describes aren't real, it's just an attempt to explain them in supernatural terms which dates from before science was able to account for them, and we developed a different vocabulary. The gospels would have used the vocabulary that was available at the time of writing.

#noego has nailed it - it's likely to be relative to your normal. People who won't perform an activity on a specific day of the week could be considered possessed, stopping eating during daylight for a prolonged period of time similarly odd. It's all relative really.

I speak from a position of having had a longstanding genuine all-out phobia of demonic possession that has disappeared with prayer and support from my church. (I'd like to add I never believed I was possessed but I was terrified I might be.)

So, from what I have read, studied and discussed with others, this is what I personally believe:

• you can't be possessed against your will, you have to invite the entity in somehow. I don't believe young children can be possessed because they don't have the understanding to make that 'contract' and I believe possession only follows on from occult involvement. So if the person is a child, or has had no involvement with the occult, it's not possession.
• if the person has a mental health issue, it is much more likely to be that than possession. If someone is afraid of possession, as I was, the fear can lead to a false belief of possession.
• possession doesn't look like it does in the movies and if someone is acting like the movies, they are likely either faking or it's a mental health issue. A demon that has possessed someone wants to stay hidden so it can cause harm.
• I would expect that on the very rare occasion someone was genuinely possessed, there would have been a change of personality, an increase in sinful activity and a spiritually aware Christian would be able to sense the evil. I believe the CofE also cites knowledge that can't be otherwise explained, being able to speak another language and/or unusual strength as signs.

But thankfully I've never seen someone who was possessed and I hope I never do.

*another language they haven't previously learned/been exposed to

OP

I am aware of a wide range of scammers and religious grifters that promote the idea of spirit possession as a way of generating revenue by charging for expensive rituals.

This is an ancient scam and is usually targeted against vulnerable people.

I found this video to be congruent with my own beliefs and experiences on the issue

Well, the only thing I know about possession is when my husband says I am all because I'm on my bloody period (Pun-unintended)