Alpha? Anyone done it and become Christian?

[sunnysunchild]

Im 3 weeks in to the course and I'm having a bit of a crisis.....
I'm not a Christian.....yet.
I want to become a Christian but I have so so many doubts.
If God loves me...why can't I feel it or know it?

It just feels all a bit like wishful thinking.
But I want to believe I just don't know if I can.

Maybe my Alpha group isn't the best?! I seem to be the only person who is isnt sure what to believe in.
Urgh what to do?! I feel I'm struggling with this.
Any thoughts anyone?

I agree that our language is limited but also think it is possible to talk about God without using Him Or He.

But giving up on searching, or making something up to suit ourselves isn’t the answer IMO. I'm not sure why you would think spiritual people have done this, what because they don't follow your way? To call yourself a follower of a particular religion, surely you need to follow it to the letter, no?

The presence within you, does not have a gender, or agenda, it has no religion, no nationality, no colour, no borders, no boundaries, no concepts, no labels. Yes, I agree.

I hope you stay online Sunny to let us know what feels right to you. I will light a candle and say a prayer for you tomorrow

OP, think of the Alpha course as a “Quick Start Guide”, and the Bible as the Users’ Manual.
Then remember that, like everything else in life, the important thing is to just get on and actually do it.
If all else fails, read the instructions!
Christianity is deeds, not words.
I doubt that God cares whether you can quote theology, but He will be delighted if you live the Christian life - sharing, helping, caring for the less fortunate, being mindful and loving in all you do and say, seeking forgiveness when you get it wrong and hurt others.
I think your special moment was a close encounter with the love of God, or the Holy Spirit. Build on that- go on and walk the walk.

Vitalogy, it's an interesting question regarding feeling a 'male presence' from God. For me, it is a lot to do with the limitations of the English language. We have two sets of personal pronouns, male ones and female ones. The significant thing to me is that God is personal, so I can't use an impersonal pronoun to talk about Him, like 'it', because it just doesn't feel respectful or accurately convey the sense of transcending our notions of gender and being 'bigger' than that.

And I'm quite content that through the record of scripture and the Church, the revealing of God has always used 'He/Him' pronouns. To use a bit of a meme joke, if those are the pronouns He has always used in the past, I'm not going to misgender Him.

Obviously a lot of that will depend on someone's view of scripture and the Church in the revealing of God, but I'm a fairly trad Catholic, so that's just the way I roll.

Having said that, using a He/Him pronoun doesn't make me feel Him as a male presence, with the possible exception of when I am thinking specifically of Jesus. Like I say, the personal pronoun reminds me that He is a person, not that He is a man.

I suppose as well, being Catholic and doing all that well dodgy praying to Mary and the saints means that I do have quite a scope for 'feeling a female presence' in my spiritual practice without needing to swap the gender pronouns of the divine at all.

“ I seriously doubt that you are genuinely offended that my outlook on the human condition is different from yours.”

You don’t think being told you are spiritually void is just a teeeeny bit offensive?

'You don’t think being told you are spiritually void is just a teeeeny bit offensive?'

Why would it be a teeeeeny bit offensive if you don't believe in any of it anyway?

Be like me being offended if a vegan said I had no conscience because I drink milk.

Thanks for answering inmyvestandpants and *FloralBunting re the Him/He question. I have said the word It before when speaking about God, like you say it doesn't sound right. I prefer the presence, consciousness, soul, life force. For some reason Him or He just irks me. But each to their own. I've got nothing against the males btw .

GucciKnickers I think inmyvestandpants was saying that everyone whether atheist or spiritual, if they don't follow a particular religion is void.

No, I was saying that their beliefs are spiritually void. I think that they - the person - are incorrect, mistaken, wrong. BertrandRussell thinks that I am incorrect, mistaken and wrong but I’m not offended by this. We’re simply disagreeing.

No, I was saying that their beliefs are spiritually void. I'll ask you again, why, because it's not your religion?

Hello OP. It's great that you're exploring faith. But I think that many of the pp on this thread have said it so well: exploring faith is a journey of differing lengths and differing paths according to differing personalities. I love Alpha, I don't think it's crap, because I've been fortunate enough to be in a church which does it well. I've been on the leadership for a few, and they've always been places where questioning is encouraged, where pat answers are not given, where a lot of listening takes place. However, I've heard of courses where it seems a lot more prescriptive and heavier expectations are put on guests, which is a shame. I guess it depends on the church - and how comfortable you feel in it all. But 3 weeks is a very short time, and I really wouldn't pressure yourself to have come to a decision or to have had experiences during that time. It's OK to walk slowly and take it all in.

The experience you had did sound like a touch of God's love and grace :)

There are some great books out there, as others have said - but again, it will depend on what you are looking for. Something more academic or something rooted more in a person's story?

Feel free to post questions and thoughts here, or on the Christian chat thread if you'd like. You're very welcome.

Going back to the gender pronouns: when 'he' is used for God in the Bible, the form of it is gender-neutral, like 'la table' in French - 'he' is simply a word to describe it. It's less than perfect, and for years now scholars have tried to come up with a gender neutral pronoun, but nothing has taken. I find it easy to look past the male pronoun, but understand why others wouldn't, so often try to keep it to 'God', though 'Godself' is a bit clunky. I sometimes mix pronouns instead.

It's not a problem to me because I never see God as exclusively male or exclusively female...

The term creator springs to mind, only as a use of language to describe the indescribable.

Are we not all creators? Through these lenses we call eyes, is not everything observed and therefore in our perception do we not create our universe?

So we are in fact creators too!!

@Vitalogy : "No, I was saying that their beliefs are spiritually void.re I'll ask you again, why, because it's not your religion?"

No, this is the wrong way around. I hold the beliefs I hold because I think the others are a spiritual cul-de-sac. I have examined and tested my faith over many many years and what I believe is intellectually sound. In contrast many so-called spiritual people see some dude in an orange robe with a dot on his forehead saying something that sounds profound and repeat it, but they haven't thought through to the logical conclusion of what they're saying.

An example of this was upthread where Noego said: "In essence you are a spiritual being having a human experience. When this is known all becomes observed, serene, peaceful and calm. There is a knowingness that the universe is looking after all and there is no need for our intervention. "

Tell a person being beaten senseless that all is observed, serene, peaceful and calm and that the universe is looking after all. Shall I not intervene when I see injustice because the knowingness has it all covered? It's bollocks.

"Shall I not intervene when I see injustice because the knowingness has it all covered? "
Universe-God. No difference in this context. You intervene because it is in our hands to make things better. Ours. Not God's, or Allah's or the Universe's. Ours.

I did. Well actually I went to two! First one I got a lot out of. Spent a lot of it crying as it just all made sense. I tried going to church but boy did I pick the wrong one! Didn't go back. But the feeling that I got that God wanted me never left. I was almost incomplete/hankering after becoming a Christian.
I went to a second alpha course. Not so much crying this time I am onward to say but I silent the whole course asking very difficult almost hostile questions. All my worries and things I didn't like about church. They answered (almost) all my difficult questions. I started going to church (a different one that suited me more - very large and modern and vibrant). Gradually gradually I became a Christian.
I didn't suddenly become a Christian after Alpha it it planted a seed and answered some big questions. I followed it up and am SO glad I did. Being a Christian has helped me so much. Life makes sense - it's not so scary. I can cope with life's stresses so much better. I look forward to going to church and I love being part of the church congregation as they are so supportive. Our church is also good fun - BBQ's, socials, serving in the community, great music, courses on marriage and parenting.
Hope all works out fir you x

Tell a person being beaten senseless that all is observed, serene, peaceful and calm and that the universe is looking after all. Shall I not intervene when I see injustice because the knowingness has it all covered? It's bollocks

I hear you. but this scenario hasn't anything to do with the universe, but with human behaviour, a human behaviour brought about by what?
Pick any human behaviour. Fear, Prejudice, Judgement, Hate, Anger, Jealousy, Bigotry............need I go on? And please tell me, where was this behaviour learnt? From the universe? Or from human dogma?

If you saw this behaviour would you intervene? How come you are in that place at that moment it time and compelled to act?

In contrast many so-called spiritual people see some dude in an orange robe with a dot on his forehead saying something that sounds profound and repeat it, but they haven't thought through to the logical conclusion of what they're saying

I agree. There is a lot of what I would call pseudo spiritualism around. As the Buddha stated 'do not believe what I tell you, go and discover and experience this for your self' (or words to that effect)

Self enquiry, introspection is key to discovering the experience of awakening and enlightenment.

@Noego, you say: "I hear you. but this scenario hasn't anything to do with the universe, but with human behaviour...
If you saw this behaviour would you intervene? How come you are in that place at that moment it time and compelled to act?"

So first you say that the universe, where all is observed, serene etc, is separate from [bad] human behaviour and then you imply that the universe would somehow arrange for me to be somewhere to directly intervene [in a good way] with another human's [bad] behaviour. Why? If in the universe - which is nothing to do with human behaviour - everything is observed and calm, then why would the universe bother to arrange for me to intervene to stop something that is nothing to do with the universe?

And that's before we even get on to thinking about what good and bad even mean in your worldview.

Surely we are part of the universe, and all that we do [good and bad] is part of the universe. I don't see how you can claim that the universe is absolutely perfect and lovely and separate from humans. We're in it. We affect it. It affects us. Sometimes it's great. Sometimes it's a shit-show. Judaeo-Christianity explains this much more satisfactorily imo.

Anyway, all I really wanted to say was to @sunnysunchild, keep up the search and don't be sidetracked by convenient platitudes about so-called spirituality. Also, don't be put off my me - not all Christians are argumentative buggers. I just can't help myself.

@inmyvestandpants
Surely we are part of the universe, and all that we do [good and bad] is part of the universe. I don't see how you can claim that the universe is absolutely perfect and lovely and separate from humans. [We're in it. We affect it. It affects us.] Sometimes it's great. Sometimes it's a shit-show. Judaeo-Christianity explains this much more satisfactorily imo

The answer is in your comments.

We're in it. Yes, as what though?
We affect it. No we don't, we think we do
it affects us, It does if you react like a human. Think how a bird or animal would react to the scenario you described. Are they also part of the universe? Do they affect it? How are they affected?

The universe is fine. Humans are the problem. IMO

Please drop all concepts, conditioning and dogmatic programming before you answer this.

No, this is the wrong way around. I hold the beliefs I hold because I think the others are a spiritual cul-de-sac. A cul-de-sac = dead end = wrong, yes? You're right, they're wrong? It's like trying to have a conversation with a politician, they can't answer a question with a yes or no either.

I don't really understand why this conversation is happening. Someone holds to specific, strongly held spiritual views because they think they are the right views. The obvious attendant fact is that they think the other views are wrong.

This isn't hard to say, is it?

This isn't hard to say, is it? Apparently it is yes.

I think the Unitarian Church may be a good place for you OP - it's a slower and calmer way of looking at things and won't concentrate only on the CoFE way of looking at things.

Vitalogy, I guess so. Not really getting why, tbh.