Question for Muslims

[poshme]

I'm a Christian, and of the kind where men & women worship together.

I know very little about Islam, but I know that some Muslims have quite strict rules about segregation of sexes for both worship & at other times. My male cousin converted to Islam and he now won't visit me at home if my husband is not at home as he says it would be inappropriate to be alone with a woman.

Over in FWR there's lots of discussion about trans issues, and it can get heated. This is a genuine question for me-
If you feel very strongly about sex segregation, how does your belief/ religion feel about trans people? So if, for example, you want to attend women only swimming sessions, would you stop going if trans women were there? (Ie a person who was born male but has now transitioned to female)

It's often raised as an issue- that Muslim women would not be able to do things if trans people are allowed into women's spaces, but is it actually true?
If you worship separated by sex, what happens to trans worshippers? Do they worship with their 'new' gender?

I hope I've worded this alright- I really don't want to offend anyone, and not trying to be goady.

Hi. I'm muslim. Obviously everyone is different and others will answer differently to me. But personally I subscribe to the fact that males are and always will be males and the same for females. So if I knew that there was somebody in a setting where I expected to only be with women and it meant removing my hijab and other clothing then I wouldn't do it in front of that person that was a man even if they had surgery.

Being trans in my version of islam is forbidden. You cannot change your sex and if you have mental health problems that mean that you are uncomfortable with your body then I think that help should come in the form of therapy not surgery or living a lie.

Your own cousin won't visit you?

I don't understand why your cousin wouldn't visit you. That's quite insulting!

To answer your question about trans people, I also believe that people cannot change sex ie. women belong to the sex that produce ova. I would not attend a female-only session if a male was there, although I do have a lot of empathy for people with genuine dysphoria and would be happy to accomodate them in other ways. I do think women should be able to have their own spaces, and all the Muslim women I have discussed this with feel the same. I have heard Muslim women online say they are fine with it, but I think they assume trans people have all had surgery. Please don’t take your cousin’s attitude as an insult to you, he is probably just trying to find his way in his new religion. You are a relative but one that he could legally marry, hence why he doesn’t want to be alone with you in a private place. Maybe he would be fine meeting outside?

Thank you for your answers. The government is proposing that trans people should be able to self identify, and are consulting on it at the moment. (Lots of stuff in feminism boards on this at the moment) and I will be filling in the consultation. I had presumed that Muslim women would not want to share female only spaces with trans people, but wanted to know for certain before commenting on it. Thank you.

I used the example of my cousin not because I am insulted, but because it was an indicator to me that some Muslims are very strict on sex segregation.
I'm sad he won't visit me, but I respect his decision on that- I would not want him to be uncomfortable.

Thanks for bringing this up poshme. I am fully on board and some of my Muslim friends are, but many people are unaware or unwilling to make a stand. Many will just retreat from public life without making a fuss, if this comes to pass. Scary times to be female, Muslim or not.

@malaguena that's what worries me- that this may result in Muslim women having to retreat from life.
I don't personally agree with the strict rules that Islam has about sex segregation, and I don't think I could live with those rules, but I understand that they are important for some Muslims.
I really strongly feel that women should be comfortable. And for many of us, that means sex segregated spaces. And I know that for many Muslims, it MUST mean sex segregated spaces.

Did your cousin come and visit you alone before? How long has he been Muslim? He’ll probably calm down after a while.

OP shouldn't this be on the feminism boards?

OP thanks for the question and thanks to the Muslim posters for answering
I wonder if other religions would be similar, for example I understand orthodox Jews observe strict sex segregation?
can anyone comment?
and if anyone wants to comment on the government consultation on reforming the GRA (briefly, they are suggesting allowing people to legally "change gender" by self declaring) here's a link-
fairplayforwomen.com/

this is not just in secular spaces but also in religious spaces. what to do when atransgender male to female muslim wants to come into the mosque ladies area to pray? these private spaces that are unobserved where women pray solitarily at times, who could be unveiled or without headcovers to socialise or to make ablution, who could be breastfeeding openly, who could be lying down taking a nap - all common sights in a mosque ladies room. how to square the rights of congregants to female only space with the rights of transgender muslims to pray in the house of God?

if it was after surgery then thats one thing, they give formal identification papers to transgender people in iran, an islamic republic as long as they have gone through surgery. but its a minefield where people are self identifying. if one asks then they are accused of prurience, where actually they just want to make sure that the segregated ladies room is a safe space where you can let your guard down from the constant risk awareness we have to do as females in this world everywhere else, be vulnerable, let your children run round or go to the loos without supervision. its a difficult topic.