Is the following story in the BIble or did I dream this? Or read it somewhere else?

[QuiQuaiQuod]

Cant find it anywhere, so sure it was in the old testament in Genesis but cant see it now:

about a man whos concubine or wife or daughter was gang raped and left for dead in a doorway? and he actually 'gave' the girl to the men to do just that?

(about to run out of credtit, on a PAYG so if I get replies and don't answer straight away you'll know why. thanks)

Perhaps the 'marry your rapist' law was more for the future status and benefit of the child than the woman? Suffering was a life-skill in those days.

I think God's existence (or not) will not be proven here, or today.

I like these debates more when they don't go in all directions at once. Maybe that's impossible on a private/public/comment/debate thread about God?

It would certainly be a miracle if this thread became untangled!

Then by divine law you are still following the rules set out to live a moral life.

So, by following the divine law of the bible, if I want to marry a girl, but she doesn't want to marry me, I just need to rape her and then she'll be forced to marry me.

I can also keep slaves, own them as my property and beat them as long as it doesn't kill them within a couple of days.

Is this really the set of moral laws you subscribe to??

If talking about the christian god and concept of heaven and hell why would anyone care if an evil person destined to hell dies?

So, homosexuals, people who eat shellfish, children born out of wedlock? These are all people destined to hell according to the bible, so we shouldn't care whether they die?

To be destined to hell they have caused much suffering to other humans.

Not necessarily - see above.

If they are good and try to live a good life then they are destined for heaven which is better than earth.

Yet the bible teaches us that god is forgiving and as long as you repent your sins, you can go to heaven anyway. Seems a little pointless worrying about things whilst we're alive then.

Perhaps the 'marry your rapist' law was more for the future status and benefit of the child than the woman? Suffering was a life-skill in those days.

I can't tell whether this is another attempt at justifying the act or not!

I think God's existence (or not) will not be proven here, or today.

Certainly it won't be, which is why I would never attempt to disprove god.

I like these debates more when they don't go in all directions at once. Maybe that's impossible on a private/public/comment/debate thread about God?

I completely agree. Perhaps we can have some specific debate threads on particular topics!

Well it seems relevant to me as it's been used to explain why God did it and how he was doing that to protect the woman.

Which though it makes no sense and is disgusting by our modern standards (at least in this country thankfully) - fitted as morally right for people at the time it was written.

Hence God made in mans image.

Hence God made in mans image.

I certainly wouldn't argue with that!

Which do you fear more? God, or Man?

Personally man.

Or, to put it another way, who are you angriest with?

Not leading anything, its an open question. I don't care to argue it.

If one woman asked this question, I'd just watch and listen.
I don't expect to be heard, but whatever.

Which do you fear more? God, or Man?

Given I don't believe there's a god, I probably don't fear it very much!

Thank goodness I am an atheist.I can't deal with trying to work out all of this nonsense.

Even Atheists have a clear choice that doesn't require any faith at all to make. For a non-existent God, she/he/it sure makes his/her/its presence felt in the world in the worst possible ways, judging by the News. Jihadists, Evangelicals, and all of the rest of the Extreme Faithful Congregation have no issue seeing God all the time.

My favourite definition of a Priest: "A beggar who can show another beggar where to get bread"

I'm slightly confused at your point @MadBadDaddy or are you just God-bashing?

"Love your neighbour shall be the whole of the law"

God is only confusing when you believe the answers you seek matter more than the questions you ask.

To faithful people, a mystery is allowed to be a mystery. This is a good enough answer to the 'question of God' and lets you get on with life. It doesn't stop you asking questions.

Demanding answers is a recipe for madness. In fact, it is 'entitled', and we all hate that! Basically, it's a Control issue between you and the Universe. (universe always wins, BTW)

I'm not seeking any answers tbh anymore

I have the ones I need. For now. But everyone's walk is different.

@Fucketynamechanged

I could say the same, and I wish more would, but I wouldn't have thought of:

"Everyone's walk is different."

That's priceless. Sin or not, I'm stealing that one!

Gosh, this thread has snowballed!

Ive started re-reading the Bible and thought years ago when I first went through it that this story was there somewhere or I had imagined it.

hence my asking.

Please don't turn it all into abunfight , those who believe in God and those who don't, a sensible discussion and debate, sure, of course,.

"It's one of the hardest things I've read in the bible."

You're not wrong, and that's up against some strong competition.

And I say this as someone that has a lot of respect for the OT & NT. There isn't much 'forgiveness' in OT, and a lot of wrath and suffering. Life was simpler then, but 'simple' could be brutal. A "happy moment" was likely to be an unexpected perk, rather than a demanded minimum.

It's all so very human, maybe that's why the Bible is so affecting after thousands of years in "print". The Judges passage is a good example of the more 'underexposed' parts of the books.

(If it gets a bit much, I go wallow in Ecclesiastes and feel better.)

("Numbers" is also hard to read, but for different reasons - it's really dull!)

And I say this as someone that has a lot of respect for the OT & NT. There isn't much 'forgiveness' in OT, and a lot of wrath and suffering. Life was simpler then, but 'simple' could be brutal. A "happy moment" was likely to be an unexpected perk, rather than a demanded minimum.

So, do you believe that the Bible is the word of God and trust in its messages to guide human beings in their morality?

@WiseOldElfIsNick "So, do you believe that the Bible is the word of God and trust in its messages to guide human beings in their morality?"

Not really.Depends what you mean by Word, God, Message, guide or morality.

I think it is the product of a group of people who wanted to capture and support the "human condition" (I made that phrase up), as a written text instead of an oral tradition. IMO, it is written more for the individual, rather than for a group like a Church (which is how I've always read it). It is not perfect, but it is the Most Successful Book Ever from multiple POVs.

I'm a fan of some Quaker thinking, if that explains my POV better. ie "The writen word kills, but the Spirit gives life"

Not really.Depends what you mean by Word, God, Message, guide or morality.

That's a great place to start! By "word of god" I mean that the bible self proclaims certain passages to be a record of what god has actually said, usually to a specific person, so word of god being the words which god has apparently said.

By "message" I mean the political, social and moral points being conveyed by the text of the bible.

By "guide" I mean to direct or influence the behaviour or development of someone.

It is not perfect, but it is the Most Successful Book Ever from multiple POVs.

What do you mean by it being the most successful book?

The writen word kills, but the Spirit gives life

I'm not sure I really understand what that means. Can you explain it a bit further?

"Can you explain it a bit further?"

Read NIV ecclesiastes, or Quaker thought on the Life of Jesus, and they can explain it/me far better than I could. You think the Bible is confusing? Try me!

I think I'm what's known as a 'humanist', but my interests are personal, rather than academic. I'm not a good spokesperson for anyone else.

I think what I was really asking was what is the spirit? As far as I can tell, life doesn't need to be given by anything externally.

Maybe google some Kahlil Gibran? It's a bit of a deep question.