Baptism question - advice gratefully received!

[MrsMar]

This is a long way off, I'm still only 20 weeks pregnant, but I've been thinking about baptism for this baby. I was brought up a Catholic and so was my husband, although we're not very good about going to church, it's usually Christmas, Easter and weddings/funerals/baptisms really. I was married in a Catholic church, and I would like my baby to be baptised in a Catholic church.

I have two questions, do you think it is hypocritical of me to want this (I would take my child to church and hopefully send him/her to Catholic school) even though I'm not terribly devout myself. I would like my children to be able to make their own minds up later having been brought up as Catholics whether they wish to carry on or not.

My second question is about Godparents. The people I am closest to and who I would like to be Godparents aren't Catholic (one hasn't even been baptised herself) and aren't church goers, but really they would be the people I would entrust the moral upbringing of my children should something happen to me (if my parents/family were unable to) I'm fairly sure my best friend who hasn't been baptised can't be a Godmother, but what about my other best friend and my husbands best friend, can they be Godparents? Would I really have to nominate an old school friend I hardly ever see to be Godparent?

Sorry to go on, I've been struggling with this one for a while and any honest opinions, even harsh ones, will be gratefully received.

xx

Q1 - no i don't think it's wrong at all. we did the same as we feel being brought up with a religion gave us the best basis possible for making our own decisions regarding faith. i take dd to xmas mass and a few others but will bring her more often when she's old enough and she will be raised as catholic as either of us were.

Q2 - we were'nt asked to show any prooof of baptism or anything lkike it to the priest and he had never met the godparents before the big day (he still hasn't met the godmother as she has an infection and was under doctors ordewrs not to be around children so my mother had to stand for her). might be worth asking someone who used the same church whether they were asked, if you can't do that why not have relatives act as godparents on the day but have a seperate non religious type ceremony or celebration to make the ones you want godparents?

googled and came up with this:

catholicgodparents

Sorry, but I find it totally hypocritical.

If you really want your children to be able to make up their own minds, then let them make up their own minds.

I am pleased that my parents didn't have me christened, and left me to make any decisions about my spirituality/religion or lack of it.

Each church seems to be different about the strictness of these things.
We we're lucky in that although our god parents never go to church any more they were baptised. The priests wanted to see photocopies of their baptism certificates.

We had quite a fuss at ours as we used my parents church(my old one) because we wanted our friend whose a priest (at a different church) to do the ceremony. He seemed to be quite surprised at the fuss that the church made. We also had to get the church from the parish we were in (but hardly ever go to) to sign off that it was ok to get dd christened in a different church.
quite ridiculous.
We couldn't get it done in the church we go to each week because they don't do births deaths & marriages.

Anyway re godl\parents I think you'll just have to ask your local priest, but if they don't agree you can always try somewhere else. They may have to do a course though.

No problems with you hardly ever going. don't think its remotely hypocritical

About the godparents, I had 3 - one catholic, 2 non catholic. But I was sure they would bring DS up in the Catholic faith should the need arise - which is the point of them really. I am not sure if at least one should be Catholic, but certainly not all need to be.

i agree with pinktulips.

oh as well as the two on the altar we had an 'Ungodfather' (atheist) who a small role in the post ceremony celebrations. It was actually him who said he would feel hypocritical on the altar.

Ungodfather how does that work then?

well should our dd decide shes really doesn't want to be catholic/christian she feels she can talk to someone (I should add a large number of our friends and almost all of our familys are catholic/christian.)

I'm not being facetious but if your child decides that they don't want to be catholic/christian/whatever, then how do they get unbaptised

They genuinely might feel peeved to have had such a choice made for them.

I don't know any of my friends who were baptised but no longer practise who are 'peeved' at the choice that was made for them. From a recent conversation I'd say more were unimpressed with the choice of bowl haircut they had or clumpy clarks shoes they were forced to wear.

the idea was to give my dd a supportive moral person who they can go to and for him to have an important role in my dds life. incidently it was the title he chose for himself

Sorry, but I do have friends who are peeved/miffed/whatever that such a decision was made for them, and as I said, I am pleased that I was never christened (in fact I used to use it as a badge of honour type thingy when I was a teenager).

Not being critical, but the op did ask for honest opinions.

Hi there, thanks for your replies. I understand what you say Gyntha. It's a real dilemma for me because although I agree with so much of my upbringing and what the Catholic church in particular and the Christian faith in general teach individuals about what is right and wrong, love for other people, kindness generosity at acceptance, I also have a lot of areas where I disagree with the Catholic church too. And you're right I can't be unbaptised. If I felt my objections (or indeed if my child felt strong objections to the Catholic church) we can always just not go to church, however if they are baptized at childhood they will always be a part of that community should they want to be.

I do appreciate too that I can still bring my child up to be a good christan (with a small c), loving and kind and generous and accepting without having to do it within the church. Those characteristics aren't only to be found within the churchgoing public.

As you can tell by the length of my posts, it's something I'm really struggling with! My sister is quite hostile to the idea that I should baptise my child if I don't go to church regularly, however she thinks I'd be a terrible mother if I didn't have him/her baptised. I can't really win with her! Thankfully my mother is a little more understanding. I don't really have any relatives who are practising catholics besides my sister, so even if she was Godmother, I'd still have the issue of a Godfather. I guess I'd have to hope that like Pinktulips I could find a priest who would be willing to accept a non catholic (I think my husbands best friend is CofE but again only really goes at Christmas and Easter occasionally)

Don't make the decision based on how you will look to others. You shouldn't be influenced by what other people say/think, be it your sister or a stranger.

I don't quite understand what you mean when you say - "If I felt my objections (or indeed if my child felt strong objections to the Catholic church) we can always just not go to church, however if they are baptized at childhood they will always be a part of that community should they want to be."

If your dc do have strong objections they can always just not go to church, BUT they can't be unbaptised.

If they are unbaptised and decide they want to be, then they can be baptised at any age and become a part of that community.

Good luck with whatever you decide, and despite what your sister says, I think that if you are giving things this much thought when you are only 20 weeks pregnant, you will be anything but a terrible mother.

i think there is a world of differance between joining a church as an adult and being raised as a paticular religion.

it was my nuns in religion class who taught me most of what i know about other religions so we were by no means forced to comply. i went to a convent school but they were perfectly fine with the fact that i no longer attended confession or mass after the age of 14 (the age my mother had always set as the age i could decide my religion for myself)

i do feel very strongly as a catholic who no longer agrees with many of the churches policies that being raised with a religion is far better than to be raised with no religion at all.

Gyntha - thanks for that. I won't be influenced by anyone or anything than my own conscience, but I do value everyone's opinions. Like pinktulips I think there's a difference between being born and brought up in a religion than there is joining one in adult life, though I'm not entirely sure what that difference is. My rational brain says surely someone who decides as an adult they'd like to be baptised is terribly committed. On a more emotional level I would feel uncomfortable if I didn't have my child baptised, as though somehow I'd left him/her exposed and vulnerable. (Some might say the Catholic church has done it's work well if I feel like this.) It's hard to reconcile the two thoughts...

The Bible says that baptism is just a ceremony - it doesn't have any eternal consequences if that's what you're worried about.

Infant baptism is certainly not Biblical and is rather part of church tradition although I know some faiths equate the church with the teaching of the Bible, personally I don't, but that's for another thread maybe

We had a thanksgiving service for our children (called dedication in our church). Other Christians I know have had Blessings or Celebrations or naming days. It's obviously up to you, but if it's just to get your kids into a Catholic school then yes it's completely hypocritical but necessary for the entrance procedure.

Although why would you want them in a Catholic school if you wantto give them a choice and access to lots of points of view - might not be a very informed choice IMO?

I was in a similar situation, in that I was a Catholic no longer going to church (divorced/remarried). After I had my second child, I decided (DH went along with it) to get the both of them baptised... in the C of E, I felt I couldn't bring them up as Catholics, if I couldn't take part fully. I started going to church again at that time, and it was the best thing I ever did! So much so, I was received into the Church of England last year, and am now training to be a Lay Minister (that last bit's not compulsory BTW! )

As for getting "unbaptised", if you don't believe in all the church stuff and caboodle, then surely its irrelevant whether you're baptised or not? If you don't believe, its a meaningless ceremony, if you DO believe, you're part of a big community of people who could (in theory) play a big part in your life.

DH was baptised as a baby, he's not a believer and it doesn't bother him one tiny bit that he was baptised. On the other hand, we couldn't have got married in church if he hadn't been baptised, and agreeing to be baptised as an adult is a whole different game (like you would have to believe or say you believe!). I know that sounds hypocritical, but it meant a lot to me to marry him in church, I couldn't have gone through with a civil ceremony.

I don't think it's hypocritical at all. I think of baptism as promises you make on behalf of the child, and is therefore more about the way you are going to bring them up, and confirmation for me is the point where they decide for themselves. No-one is ever going to mind having been baptised I don't think.

Godparents - I think you have to have one catholic, but otherwise it doesn't matter, although I think they have to be baptised. I'm not catholic but my god-daughter is. My 3 are baptised CoE but their godparents are 'not quite sure', CoE, Catholic, URC and methodist!

should add my grandfather was my godfather and he was baptised and raised reformist protestant

I agree bobsmum, I have a sneaky suspicion my sister evangelism is due in part to her overriding desire to get her daughters in to Catholic school which explains some of her vehemence. I went to a Catholic school and it was a brilliant school, but I did feel I didn't get exactly a broad view of the world. Everyone there was white and middle class. I didn't know anyone who's parents were divorced until I was 18. We weren't taught anything about any other religions, I didn't know anything about the moslem faith, Jewish faith and so on, and considering the times we live in, I'd rather a child of mine had a broader upbringing. Having said that, I left school nearly 20 years ago now (eeek!) so I'm sure things have changed. I think it's up to me and the church to teach my children about religion and up the school to teach them maths, English, French and so on.

Thanks for your input MaryBS and tortoiseshell. I do feel much more positive about approaching my parents priest about having the baby baptised at their church, would love to do it at Christmas time, seems so appropriate somehow!

We are not church goers, other than Christmas, Weddings, etc. DH is catholic and I am CofE. We were married abroad but had our wedidng blessed in the Catholic church. We had DD baptised Catholic at the same church.

For us going to church isn't how we follow our beliefs. Neither of us are devoutly religious, but both have some deep down level of belief there. So it was important to us to this extent. I don't think this is hypocritical.

As for godparents, our priest told us that at least one should be be Catholic, and all should be baptised themselves. We did follow this - 1 out of 4 was catholic. However, no one actually checked to see if they were or were not baptised anyway, so not sure how strict they are on all that.

I don't think the priest checks, because he presumes honesty from you. It would be odd to set out on the path of being a Christian with a lie. Have a good chat with your priest, explain that while you don't attend church regularly you do intend to raise your child as a Catholic. That is all that is required. One Godparent does have to be a Catholic, but you can have others who are not. My DH is his neice's Godparent and he is agnostic/atheist! I was there too as the real Godparent .

Hi MrsMar I converted to catholicism last year. I then had ds baptised and dd first holy communion.

None of my godparents were catholic, the priest did ask, but turned a blind eye really and said he would sort it with the bishop. I'm not sure if any of them were baptised in any faith, it wasnt asked

HTH

ds (baptised Anglican) has five godparents - two Anglican, one RC, one Old Catholic and one Lutheran. All very ecumenical I don't know about Catholicism, but I think it's lovely that ds will get to know so many denominations.