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Philosophy/religion

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Husband considering becoming catholic

79 replies

twolittleboysonetiredmum · 24/01/2018 21:25

Hi
I’m not sure why I’m posting really - advice possibly and just to get it out. Slightly long explanation too, sorry.
My husband and I are both teachers in catholic primary schools and have been for 10 years approx. We have been supportive and embracing towards the faith but have not identified as catholics/Christians.
I was christened a catholic as a baby - my fathers family are very devout catholics. My parents separated when I was 2 and my mum is a fervent atheist who discouraged much involvement with my dads side at all and faith ever.
I have never given much thought to my own faith - I neither believe or disbelieve in god currently.
My husband, as part of his professional development, has been attending a catholic course which should you so wish, at the end, you can choose to convert/become a catholic and go through the necessary events to do so. He has come home today and said he thinks he would like to do that.
I’m feeling a bit - conflicted - is the only word I can think of. I believe it is entirely up to him as they are his beliefs and it is his faith. However, it will mean our marriage needs to be blessed. (Not sure I’m on board with that) and obviously he would need to attend church on a Sunday. Without sounding pathetic, we always go for walks/days out on a Sunday as a family as Saturdays are dominated by swimming lessons etc. I really don’t want to lose that but recognise that’s not a reason not to follow your beliefs. I just feel like it’s only going to have a negative impact on us and am worried about it I guess. But don’t want him to feel he can’t do what he needs to either.

OP posts:
Christmascardqueen · 31/01/2018 02:41

I’d check out a small group of parishes. Some are more relaxed than others and happy to fill seats.

Toddlerteaplease · 31/01/2018 03:36

I really don't think that you absolutely have to have your marriage convalidated. Partying you don't want to.

Crumbs1 · 31/01/2018 03:49

Not all Catholics are particularly fundamental or reactionary in their beliefs or practice. Don’t panic. Many only go to church occasionally. Many use contraception. Many support access to safe abortion. Many are just ordinary, kind, everyday sort of people whose key shared value is to love one another.
A marriage blessing is not an essential part of Catholicism. In fact, the church currently doesn’t recognise marriage that has not been made as a sacrament within the Catholic Church. Registry office weddings are not seen as marriage. The blessing may be a foible of the local priest. It’s not a requirement for one partner to be received into the church.

Thermowoman · 31/01/2018 04:16

I would actually leave my husband if he returned to Catholicism, I feel so strongly about it. He just wouldn't be the person I thought he was. But then I am from NI and was brought up during the troubles, which was enough to put me off religion for life.

mathanxiety · 31/01/2018 05:07

I'll start by saying that this is very puzzling.
............
Not this bit, but what you have been told by your H.

My misgivings are more that it is very ‘other’ to start to consider the presence of religion in my direct family life. I have embedded negative feelings towards faith in general because of my childhood which I recognise won’t necessarily come true but are still there nonetheless. I worry that there will be an expectation there for me to become more involved and I don’t know now if that is what I want. Or what I want for our children. And I think all these things should be clearer before commitments are made by my husband.
I definitely think a cooling off period should happen. There is no rush (in my mind) and if he feels the same way in a years time then he could consider it again then. I don’t know how he will feel about that as had no chance to discuss it yet.
And I think i am worried that it’s not the right path for him too - personally I know how swayed I can feel when involved in the ritual towards the more spiritual and he is more involved with it than ever currently with the course etc.

Your H thinks this decision he has made to be baptised is a personal thing, and you say you agree, but you shouldn't agree. I am saying this as a practicing Catholic. There is a little high handedness going on here, and I wonder why you have been excluded so far from the process, if there is a process, that your H is taking part in. It is very late in the day to sit down and talk about the children and the impact on your relationship of all of this. This should have been done a long time ago.

You most certainly should have a chat with the priest. Please don't do this on a casual basis. Make an appointment and send your questions ahead of you in an email or letter. But first sit your H down and ask him if he is involved in RCIA or what sort of process of discernment and preparation he is on, what programme, who runs it...

I am very surprised that you have not spoken to the priest earlier. This would be most unusual where I am (RC parish in the US where numerous adult baptisms and confirmations take place every year, plus numerous older child baptisms).

What if the kids all become catholic and I’m left out? What if it’s just him who stays that way and he therefore becomes more distance from us?
The reverse took place in my dad's family, with RC parents gradually realising that their children were nearly all Buddhists... Takes all sorts.

Seriously though, you need to talk to the priest about this and so much else, and again, I am very surprised indeed that none of this has been discussed up to now.

Things you need to ask about:
The marriage blessing - necessary? Your reservations.
Impact on your marriage and your family life of a newly active belief system and possibly new observances on the part of your H.
Children to be Catholic?

Please, please talk about your hangups and negative experiences as a child. Your parents' relationship.
...the bind to church and its community being all encompassing and restrictive. This perception too.

Lent is just around the corner - beginning on Valentine's Day this year (aka Ash Wednesday) followed by Easter in 7 weeks. So about nine weeks away. Easter is seven weeks after that.

If your H is in RCIA then he is on the home straight at this point. What he will not have is any sort of a cooling off period available at this point unless he wants to put it off and be baptised/confirmed at a later date.

I am concerned that you do not seem to be in the loop here even to the extent of not knowing about the Saturday vigil Mass, and that your H may have been involved in RCIA for at least several months now, perhaps a whole year (I may be barking up the wrong tree here completely however), that you have important questions that have not been answered, and again (I keep on coming back to this) - no contact with the priest and no reaching out from him.

Were you planning to go to the baptism/confirmation?

In my parish, the baptism or confirmation (often both together) is attended by families, many of whom are not RC at all, but they are there in reserved pews and seem happy. The priests involved have always taken a lot of time at the Mass to talk about the families and the backgrounds of those being baptised or confirmed and to thank families for laying a foundation of faith or encouraging the inquiring minds of their family members. With this in mind, your H's contention that baptism is a personal and private matter seems very odd indeed.

The process in the diocese of Glasgow looks very similar to the process in my parish:
www.rcagliturgy.org.uk/interested-in-becoming-a-member-of-the-catholic-church.html
What is the process of the RCIA?

<span class="italic">Period of Evangelisation and Pre-catechumenate</span>

This is a time of no fixed duration where the seeker or inquirer has the opportunity to be opened to the values of the Gospel and the beginning of the journey of faith.

First Step: Acceptance into the Order of Catechumens
This is the first public step taken by the seeker and marks the beginning of the period of the catechumenate and acceptance of the seeker by the Church and indeed the worshipping community.

<span class="italic">Period of the Catechumenate:</span>

During this period, the faith and growth of the catechumen is nurtured and strengthened. This is enhanced by celebrations of the Word of God and prayers of blessing.

<span class="italic">Second Step: Election or enrolment of names</span>

This rite is celebrated in the Cathedral every year of the First Sunday of Lent. For the first time, all those seeking initiation into the Church community from each parish in the Archdiocese come together. It is during this celebration that the catechumens and candidates are declared "elect" to receive and share in the sacramental life of the Church.

<span class="italic">Period of Purification and enlightenment</span>

During the season of Lent, the elect are called to deeper reflection and conversion in preparation for the celebration of the Sacraments at the Easter Vigil. This is helped by the celebration of "scrutinies" and presentations with the Creed and the Lord's Prayer.

<span class="italic">Celebration of the Sacraments of Initiation</span>

The Easter Vigil is the highlight of the Church's year, and it is normally at this celebration that the Christian Initiation of Adults take place. Those who have been elected are initiated into the Church by Baptism, Confirmation and Eucharist.

<span class="italic">Mystagogy</span>

The time following Christian Initation is a time of celebration for the newly baptised and initiated into the Church and also a time for them to adapt to their new role within the community of the Church. This stage in the journey is normally concluded with a diocesan celebration of the great feast of Pentecost.

Sorry to include this if your H is not in fact involved in the RCIA process. It's not clear from your posts if he is or not:
(1) My husband, as part of his professional development, has been attending a catholic course which should you so wish, at the end, you can choose to convert/become a catholic and go through the necessary events to do so. He has come home today and said he thinks he would like to do that.

(2) -he is doing the course that people do to convert and should convert at Easter vigil this year should he choose to.

Some points:
(1) RCIA would not be part of professional development. The decision to be baptised/confirmed is supposed to be completely voluntary and the process of discernment and commitment takes place outside of any professional context.
(2) He would have been in RCIA for about a year now, with all of the above participation in rites for catechumens at Mass, small group study and possibly a retreat or two, if he is going to be fully received into the Church at Easter this year, which is 16 weeks away.

Are you aware of any of the activities and preparations I C&Pd on his part?

Again, heartfelt apologies if I have got the wrong end of the stick.

twolittleboysonetiredmum · 31/01/2018 08:01

Thanks for the replies - especially the last post which was really informative.
He isn’t impulsive no. His family aren’t religious at all and are very distant. I asked if he was maybe trying to fill a gap and he thinks not. He frames it very much as a journey.
He’s been on the course since sept - I don’t know it’s name but I’d guess it’s the one you’re referring to as he’s always said you can choose to be baptised etc at the end. He was asked to attend it by his new boss - a recent convert I think. As he already has his CCRS it was the next ‘study’ step really as well as his head trying to convert him I assume! He was aware of this when he took it on - he’s always been academically interested jn faith and it stemmed from that originally.
For those of you saying the catholic faith is not as archaic as it used to be in terms of abortion, contraception etc I know this. I work with catholics and my family are catholics of varying commitment. My concerns don’t stem from some backward view of the faith and it’s restrictions. Though as I said previously I do have hang ups from my childhood about how it’s approached socially (if that’s the right word)
Would it not be unusual for me to talk to the priest about it all? I don’t, as another has suggested, want to interfere or seem to be trying to stop my husband doing something. But I suppose it would maybe give me some perspective on it. I’m not sure .

OP posts:
twolittleboysonetiredmum · 31/01/2018 08:03

I’m not aware of any preparations as such - he attends the group weekly and they talk. No more than that has happened. He will have to commit soon if he wants to go ahead at Easter. I have asked him to hold off and he’s not given a definitive answer to that. I don’t know if that’s je wrong thing to do or not.
In terms of the marriage - we were married in a registry office. As I am catholic (technically) and if he converts then we are not married in the churches eyes as two catholics need to be married in a church. So our wedding would need to be blessed. If I hadn’t been baptised it wouldn’t be an issue (tho the church still wouldn’t recognise it)

OP posts:
IceCreamIceCream · 31/01/2018 08:31

For those saying that the church doesn’t recognise registry office marriage- it’s not true. The church does infact recognise state marriage. It would encourage you to have your marriage blessed in the church if you are both practicing or if you start having children but it does not mean that your registry office wedding is invalid.

twolittleboysonetiredmum · 31/01/2018 08:37

Maybe recognise is the wrong word. As far as I can tell it’s not approved by God. I’m sure they recognise that it’s a legal state etc but it’s sporitually Worthless I guess?!

OP posts:
Twogoround · 31/01/2018 18:03

Has your husband told you the marriage needs to be blessed.

twolittleboysonetiredmum · 31/01/2018 20:21

He’s not said it has to be no. Just that it’s an ‘issue’ (for the church not him) if he chooses to convert. I think it came up as part of a conversation he had at the course last week. He’s due back from it again in a while so be interesting to see what he’s discussed this week

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 01/02/2018 04:37

As he already has his CCRS it was the next ‘study’ step really as well as his head trying to convert him I assume! He was aware of this when he took it on - he’s always been academically interested jn faith and it stemmed from that originally.
It's not the next step from CCRS though.
CCRS involves examination of the whats and whys of the RC faith. The RC religion is one that has a lot of appeal for people wishing to engage their brains, contrary to a lot of assumptions, tales of blind obedience, etc. It's very possible that he felt inspired or more curious after doing the CCRS course, and decided to embark on this 'journey', especially if he has always had an academic interest in faith - 'journey' is an apt word that he is using imo.

Would it not be unusual for me to talk to the priest about it all? I don’t, as another has suggested, want to interfere or seem to be trying to stop my husband doing something. But I suppose it would maybe give me some perspective on it. I’m not sure.

You absolutely should talk to the priest.
I think it is most unusual that there has been no contact initiated between the priest and you up to now. It's odd that the priest has not contacted you, that your H has not shown you a schedule of meetings, the name of the course, clarified to you that this is not a career move, kept you up to date on the topics of the weekly meetings (sounds like RCIA btw), or encouraged you to contact the priest yourself. It seems your H is playing it close to his chest and there has been little communication between the two of you on this topic.

The last thing a priest wants to do is allow someone to continue on the path to reception into the RC church if it would interfere with his marriage or cause unhappiness, doubts, or worries to his wife. Any issues that have arisen as a result of your H's decision would really need to be thrashed out. It doesn't matter that you are 'only' married in a registry office. The RC church can't let someone contemplating baptism or confirmation do damage to the marriage and family unit by going ahead with a decision that the spouse has misgivings about or questions about.

Is your H normally a reserved or introspective person, or 'deep' as my mother would call it? I think there is a communication issue here that should be properly identified and addressed.

Were you planning to go to the baptism/confirmation? (If he has already been baptised then he will receive communion and will be confirmed at Easter, if he chooses to go ahead. If never baptised then he will have all three sacraments). I really think it would be odd for this event to be the first time the priest would see a candidate's family.

twolittleboysonetiredmum · 01/02/2018 06:10

He is very introspective and says that he didn’t want to involve any of us up to now as he wasn’t sure.
Initially he did go on the course as his new over zealous head encouraged him to, maybe a next step is the wrong phrase but as a way to develop his RE and I guess to hope he would join up. Which has obviously been successful.
We have spoken about the meetings each week but that’s all there’s been to it. Maybe as I know the priest from my work in school he didn’t feel there was any need? The kids are also at my school so the priest also knows them. We’ve never discussed faith on any level as I think that would be inappropriate at work!

OP posts:
CardinalSin · 01/02/2018 12:48

"The last thing a priest wants to do is allow someone to continue on the path to reception into the RC church if it would interfere with his marriage or cause unhappiness, doubts, or worries to his wife"

I think that rather depends on the priest. My DW's family and friends number a lot of Catholics among them, and some of the priests they have come across have been odious, pompous, self-important asses. Others are lovely, but it's not certain which type you'll get.

If he really wants to examine it as an intellectual exercise, then make sure he reads some Christopher Hitchens (God is not Great), or even Dawkins (The God Delusion) etc., rather than just the pink and fluffy stuff cherry picked for him by the church. If he won't then it's definitely not something he's engaging his brain on.

EddSimcox · 01/02/2018 13:25

This is fascinating thread. Thanks OP. Unusual too, in having lots of really sensible reasoned posts on both sides of the issue.

I don't really have any helpful to add, I'm not RC and I don't know what's best in your situation. All I can say is that you are approaching this issue so much better than we did - my DP and I are splitting up and for her this is absolutely the main issue between us. We have completely failed to cope with this change (despite years of couples counselling talking about it). So well done, keep an open mind, and keep talking to each other about what will work for you both.

EddSimcox · 01/02/2018 13:27

I really think it would be odd for this event to be the first time the priest would see a candidate's family.

Unless I've misunderstood completely the reason could be that the priest already knows the OP from school and therefore assumes she is on board with it all?

EddSimcox · 01/02/2018 13:28

oh, sorry, that's what the OP just said!

NorthernLightsAlways · 01/02/2018 13:30

so strange - i converted to Catholicism, DH and I married in a registry office and I was PG at the time - nobody mentioned us needing to have our marriage blessed at all - I'm surprised that's a thing. I would've quite liked it, but not if it caused my (non-religious but supportive DH) problems. My DH didn't attend any of my RCIA sessions but he did go to my confirmation and has been to church with me on important occasions but not every Sunday.

NorthernLightsAlways · 01/02/2018 13:33

what icecream says makes sense - i think you could have a blessing on your marriage, but i can't think it's mandatory - I certainly managed to convert and practice without this being a thing.

WildWindsBlowing · 01/02/2018 13:47

So for me, I would be unwilling to agree to church every Sunday if it impacted on family life

I think all individuals in a family should be able to take about 1 1/2hrs (max even including travelling probably) for themselves - whether that is for spirituality, dreaming, reading, walking, whatever etc

Not only is there the Saturday 'vigil' option, some churches also hold mass on Sunday evenings.

WildWindsBlowing · 01/02/2018 13:49

or even Dawkins (The God Delusion) etc

For God's sake!
He does not need Dawkins to think for him.

NorthernLightsAlways · 01/02/2018 13:53

or you can go first thing on a weekday morning sometimes - there are variable mass times, it doesn't have to be prime time on a Sunday morning every week.

I never drag my children to church - I tried a few times and it left a bad taste in my mouth as it didn't seem very christian to force them to go along with my choices, but they do go on special occasions.

CardinalSin · 01/02/2018 14:50

"He does not need Dawkins to think for him"

It sounds like he's letting the priest think for him at the moment, so he needs to listen to other perspectives if he wants to claim he's not being indoctrinated.

For God's sake!

Oh, the irony...

twolittleboysonetiredmum · 01/02/2018 21:17

Eddsimcox I’m sorry it’s affected your relationship so deeply. That is one of my worries actually. That it’s almost like he’s going to go down an entirely separate path and if I don’t choose to follow him slightly then where will that leave us? Ok for now but what about further down the line?
I agree that we all should get our own headspace and that could be church for him I suppose. Just not a regular, eating away at the same day. But yes, the Sunday point is moot now thankfully :)
He’s very well read and has read Dawkins amongst other things. The priest is a very intelligent and well read guy also. He’s great company and incredibly understanding and open. So I doubt he’s being pushy or even indoctrinating him. He’s very easy to have debate with on any level and my husband will definitely be enjoying that higher level opportunity to engage with someone about religion/theology and spirituality. I do worry that could be part of the attraction in a strange way? That if it were a less accessible and friendly priest maybe he wouldn’t have got this far? Maybe he would’ve.
The responses on here are really helpful and really helping me think things through more thank you. It’s really appreciated .

OP posts:
Jason118 · 02/02/2018 18:13

Reading your last post it occurs to me that they might have fallen in loveSmileSmileSmile

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