Is Atheism a religion?

[HarrassedDad]

My DW and I were debating this and thought we would ask all of you! The question stemmed from asking if Atheism is taught at schools during RE lessons (we think it should be).

What do you do about the gaps where reason and knowledge can't get you ?
I can't work out where everything comes from. Every explanation I've had explained to me, from happy clappy christianity to aggressively atheist curved spacetime is transparently self deluding bollocks.
To an extent that's my big problem with RE in schools. The "E" in religious education is weak and often missing. It's not critical. In English literature one may examine the crap structure and anti-semitism in the Merchant of Venice, or in history criticise the horrors of slavery and any number of wars, and errors made by leaders from Caesar to Hitler. A good chunk of Science is learning the crap people have believed from flat Earth to homoeopathy.
But does RE talk of the torture carried out by religious groups including the Spanish inquisition ? Do kids get taught about how churches supported thge murder of kids in Norhern Ireland ? The legalised rape of women under Islam, and Hinduism ? The collaboration of the Catholic church with the Nazis ? The inherent racism of Zionist Judiaism ?
Athiests are no more innocent, if we look at China and Russia, in the last 100 years, as many people have been murdered in the name of rejecting God as in his name.
My personal earliest rejection of religion was on those lines. Even as a 9yo it was pretty bloody obvious that these crazies and their God weren't the good guys.

I have had Humanist ceremonied for my children, and have a lot of respect for that belief system. I hoped we would study it but am v v v annoyed with my uni atm as they seem to drop all the things I went there to study (found out yestrerday they buggered up my MA by dopping Buddhism next year ). I do occasionally foray into Qualerism as they will accept the Humanist morality, which is possibly exceptionally strong as it is for the sake of morality itself rather than approval by God and / or Gods. Like many poeple I do have occasional glimpses of God- faith too, and wouldn't deny it as a possibility, but all in all my belief is that Jesus taught a wonderful philosophy of love that I choose to live by, but for the sake of the philosophy rather than the possible existence of God. That probably makes no sense, it does to me.

My course is Re and Phiolosophy, I kida think philosophy should be taught (esp. ethics) but where in the curriculum? probably, i think all teachers should (and many do) be encouraged to include ethical deabte etc as part of their teaching. RE is important- its the reality of getting on with each other today. As an example- DH was 32 housrs late home thisd morning as a result of a dispute at work where a particular religious group have been appallingly badly behaved and claimed lots of things on their basis of their religion (and also smashed up and soiled all over the toilets). Dh and his colleagues had no idea how to proceed, they accepted it was linked to their faith. It was a combination of trouble making / taking cultutral norms of a different (and lackng in sanatation) society to a ridiculous level/ there were also some genuine requests for religious ne4eds buried in amongst it all- which I suspect caused the rest- and I dont think it would have taken much knowledge for Dh et al to have been able to identify those needs and thereby minimise the attention seeking and unacceptable other behaviours. Without disciplinaries / people fearing for their jobs (managemnet - not DH, though why he didnt call me I will never know) and generl upset that last night ended up in.

RE is an essential subject and taught well is applicable to every single person on this planet, ofetn when you elast expect it.

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But does RE talk of the torture carried out by religious groups including the Spanish inquisition ? Do kids get taught about how churches supported thge murder of kids in Norhern Ireland ? The legalised rape of women under Islam, and Hinduism ? The collaboration of the Catholic church with the Nazis ?

my history (not my degree) course did, yes. especially the last one- we were given lots of related documents to look at.
Although it was more from the perspective of the Nazi's consideringt hemselves Christian.

And Islam doesn't legalise rape, it has a different defintion of rape (and an abohorent one imo) but under their definition of rape it is very severely punished. Now, not all Islamic law systems are really Ismlamic interms of Quran'ic ? Sunnah led instruction, but that's hardly the fault of Islam.

China and Russia have never done anything in "the name" of atheism DC. What a load of twaddle. I hate the argument because it talks as though athiesm has followers. Communisim is a belief system athiesm cannot be classified in the same way at all.

Exactly gf - things may have been done in the name of intolerance not in teh name of atheism. And I'm sure adherants of most relogions would claim that any bad things had not been done in the name of their religion either, but because of intolerance

Prnui is wrong, I went to 2 crap schools.
But I talk to people who've done RE, and none of it is cautionary tales of what happens when you merge superstition and violence.
It's all about the ideals of religion and none of the reality.

Also it is factually incorrect as glitterfairy claims that people were not murdered in the name of atheism.
Many Christians were killed by the Russians for just that reason, and even now both Moslems and Christians ,as well as other faiths are persecuted by the Chinese. The Chinese even manage to have a grudge against Buddhists, a sort of "innovation" in the persecution business.
Peachychocolate has an interesting interpretation of Sharia. Under Islam a woman's evidence is officially half that of a man. Guess how often they achieve convictions even if they try ?
There is no point Moslems having severe punishments if they create laws that make it close to impossible to convict.

I am a secularist. We believe in humanist principles and scientific and logical debate. Does that count as a religion? It governs the way I act, and creates moral responsibility so probably yes it is.

Atheism is a part of secularism. Ergo, yes I think atheism is part of the religion of secularism.

More here

Yes with Shari'a, that not the definition of rape though is it?

rape in Shari'a occurs if the attack happens in a rural area, there's an assumption that in a built up area a scream would be heard and the attack prevented. Its mroe complex than that (I have the definition somewhere buried) but that's the gist of it. The testimony thing is also somewhat mroe complex (I am sure there's varying values of witnesses / numbers of witnesses) although you have the gist correct.

My RE syllabus (and after all we will be the techers of tomorrow) IS critical. It may not always be, or have been, but my RE is here and now and a reality of my life, so I feel I know where it is at.

I see Atheism as often a religion, which is why I reject it.
I see a religion as where you believe something even where there is no supporting objective evidence, and where you reject things that undermine that view, on the grounds that it would make you believe it less.
Many Athesists are just like that. They so want to not believe in God that they construct structures just as fanciful and absurd as anything you will hear preached by a God believing religion.

I think there's a nice parallel in politics, where socialism and fascism were taken as two sides of the same coin. So opposite that they ended up looking the same.

"they construct structures just as fanciful and absurd as anything you will hear preached by a God believing religion"

Go on, give us a few examples DC

Atheism's not a religion or a belief 'system' - it's a belief. I really don't like the term - as someone else said, it stems from an assumption of belief.

Don't see why you can't teach about it in RE though - imo every RE syllabus should include constant reminders that lots of people follow no religion, with explanations of that position.

I prefer the more positive term 'humanism' myself. Guess what - you CAN have ethics without religion!

At the strictest level, Atheism simply means the absence of Theism, much as Amennorrhea means no menstruation (sorry first example I could think of LOL) or Asymptomatic which means no signs of disease

So how can the absence of belief in a God be a religion?

There aren't a lot of genuinely atheistic belief systems either, not that i've come across anyhow- not after the initial set up phase. Picked up a kids book on Buddhism earlier and it started talking about the God Indra. And Jainism has a form of god that dwels in the Heaven level of their 'cosmic man' system of Cosmology.

Oh of COURSE it is not a religion. But yes, I do think that children should be taught in RE that thinking it is all nonsense should be a respectable option.
And that from someone who is extremely atheistic but happily drags all three children around churches.

LOL Aloha, you're not going to do better than me- Atheist Humanist who is doing an RE degree! Your Church visits are nothing in comparison

Of course it should be taught that there are options to believing in all this stuff. Humanism is imo an excellent starting point, but just talking about the idea that people dont always believe in a religion, and how that might work, is a good start too imo.

I was APPALLED when I discovered that my stepdaughter didn't know who the pop star Madonna was named after, and I'm not joking. That was in a church in the south of France. She knows now. All my children are quite well grounded in religion, actually.

I am a member of the BHA!

Ds (five) and I spend a very happy hour googling creation stories too. It's all very interesting I think.

They should be (which is why I'm doing my RE PGCE after this, albeit maybe with an MA first). RE is key to understanding the rational of the majority of people on our planet, its an essential subject imo. And anyway, just because you don't believe doesn't mean, as I am sure you will agree, you can't respect. There is something to be respected in every major religion, imo.

LOL Aloha- we have quitew a lot in common really don't we? Even if we sometimes argue the toss of it.

I'm not sure respect is the right word. I wouldn't laugh in anyone's face, and I'm very polite in Church (keep children's voices down, even when dd is inquiring, loudly, of the cherubs on a tomb 'why is dat baby cryin'? Where is his mummy? He's hurt his knee! And HE'S GOT NO CLOTHES ON!')

But I'm not sure 'respect' is quite the right term.

It is for me, doesn't mean you have to share that though, I totally respect peoples right to choose their own faith and their reasons for doing so. My choices are no mroe likely to be right than anyone elses, after all- I'm not omniscient after all (and if I was I'd hardly be Atheist would I? LOL)

Well, I don't 'respect' astrology. I'm not rude to people who believe in it - for some strange reason I know two very nice people who have 'trained' to be astrologers - but I cannot honestly say that I 'respect' it. I think it is unutterable bollocks, in all honesty!

Ah no, I dont mean respect the religion- I mean reespect the choice of those who follow it, and their right to do so. I've come across a few bizarre ones (I can't grasp Jainism for example, and the ban on root veg) but I do acknowledge the positive aspects of jainism (and Ahimsa is a kindly aim) and as such can respect the jains and their choice of faith.

And by learning about it, I can communiate with them in a way I simply couldn't otherwise- I ahdnt even heard of it until Is at the module this year.

I'm not bothered about what poeple think of faiths- as longa s they treat the adherents with repect.

Actually I looked up respect and its almost indefinable- for me, its about acknoewledging their right to believe whichever faith they choose and follow it (within our existing law system) without hindrance insofar as it harms nobody and does not intentionally cause suffering (ie I have immense respect for the Qur'an, none for Shari'a however, though I do its aims of preserving their communities intact- but not the way it goes about it).

Probably makes no sense LOL! But hey, its late.

Oh I think it is important that people should be free to believe anything they want, even if I think it is absolute rubbish. I do think that when religion is an excuse for what I think is morally reprehensible behaviour then I have the right to say so though. I think that nobody should be persecuted for their beliefs though, however horrible. Janeism is totally nuts though. SOrt of sweet, but nuts!