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Original poster

Christian prayer thread for winter

984 replies

Madhairday · 12/11/2017 17:18

Hello all! I just posted a long post on the old thread and realised it's full up, so just going to copy this here to sunshine - will try and do a roundup of other prayers too later. Everyone welcome here!

Just want to reiterate what Oma and Cocoa have said so well, sunshine. It's no wonder church feels like a hostile place and you freeze up. I feel so sad for you that that man did this to you. But Christ isn't the church , the church is supposed to be his body, reaching out hands of love and help and compassion, and sometimes they mess that up. Hugely. Sometimes evil crawls in. But that doesn't mean God's abandoned you. I love that Oma referred to the prodigal son, I was looking at Rembrandt's study of that parable the other day and so struck afresh by the father's absolute joy in his son being home, his grace in embracing him whatever he'd done. Sadly you've had a poor excuse for a father so it must be so difficult to frame God in the language of father for you Flowers but God is the father who loves you beyond your imaginings, who reaches out arms of compassion and forgiveness, who gathers you in and just loves you. Loves you so much, so, so much, without end. You can never do anything that will make God abandon you. Jesus said that he is with us always, even to the end of the age.

I know church is threatening, lovely, but there are a lot of people who would love to help, here on the internet and in real life. It's just a case of reaching out, but I know that must seem impossible right now. I've learned that God is a God of restoration, a God who longs to mend the broken places and devastations in people's lives. I've seen people set free from so much and believe with everything I am that God longs to set you free, too.

I'd love you to find some medical support. I'm so sorry your GP is so rubbish. More and more the case, sadly. I pray you can get in to see someone. Would you also consider some counselling? Like cocoa says, that doesn't mean they would take your DC away, just that they would want to support and help you. Flowers you sound a lovely mum and have done so well to get to this point. I'm glad you are reaching out here. Please take care and know God's love pouring over you by the Holy Spirit. Flowers

OP posts:
Becca19962014 · 07/10/2018 12:18

Sorry, I got carried away! Blush

drspouse · 07/10/2018 16:14

Very justified.

BlackeyedSusan · 07/10/2018 22:27

complaint to dioscese sounds reasonable.

or possibly email every vicar you can find an address for and see if you can find a church where this will not happen (explaing what happened). and the bishops and the deans... and the disability advisor if there is one.

and if I was really really pissed off I would include both archbishops as well as they have a contact form.

hell hath no fury like the mother of a disabled child who is scorned by the very place that should be the most forgiving and welcoming.

It is a shame that you are a bit more on the liberal end of the spectrum as I might possibly be reminding them of millstones and condeming children to hell... Wink though you could couch it in words and theology to suit you.

hell hath no fury like the mother of a disabled child who is scorned by the very place that should be the most forgiving and welcoming.

Original poster
Madhairday · 07/10/2018 23:02

DrSpouse and Becca FlowersSad

I'm so sorry the meeting was so rubbish DrSpouse. Such a shame people aren't looking to see how they can help in a practical way. I hope you can find a way through, or another church you feel accepted at. Can I gently ask that you don't rule out evangelical churches altogether; I well know some are harsh and unloving but I've know many generous, caring and inclusive churches in that tradition (usually CofE though.) Mine is lovely :) we've just set up a club for children with SN and their families.

Praying for you and for Becca, for ways through and the peace of God.

OP posts:
BlackeyedSusan · 07/10/2018 23:48

tis because you are lovely mhd.

Becca19962014 · 08/10/2018 00:13

Had to go to hospital re tonsillitis, had swab done and given more antibiotics. Was terrifying. Now having meds before bed. Appointment first thing. Please pray, am very scared.

Dutchoma · 08/10/2018 07:33

I hope the new meds have kicked in Becca and you are feeling a bit better.

Becca19962014 · 08/10/2018 09:39

I've not got them yet! It's the same antibiotic and a sort of antiseptic mouthwash. Am exhausted!

drspouse · 08/10/2018 10:11

Becca feel better soon.

BES you are absolutely right, the white heat of fury is well and truly burning.
DH has started small and "surely this isn't right" by contacting the Education office at the Diocese saying "erm can the church not be offered anything". We know the answer is "there is lots for them to use, they just won't use it INCLUDING THE 1:1 THAT WE ARE FUNDING". Full on Bishop complaint will come after that. DH is our secret weapon as at our other church (which complained that the DCs were too noisy) he was on the PCC and is fully into CofE geekery.

MHD we do both have a bit of a bad history with evangelical churches, DH especially, finding them really quite judgemental on a whole range of issues (pre-kids). If we can find one that isn't, I'll just take a book to read during the 40 minute sermon we'll be happy but history isn't good on that one.

BlackeyedSusan · 08/10/2018 13:31

one evangelical church or more than one?

some are a bit, erm, literal in their interpretation and view through a patriarchal gaze picking passages to suit their purpose. others are more the Bible is God's word, we believe it, we follow it, but set it in context of the whole teaching not just passages shoehorned in to teach our own agenda

sometimes not having coe geekery helps as well when you acoost the bishop in person with your complaint.

drspouse · 08/10/2018 13:42

More than one in DH case, whole childhood and young adulthood of it. For me, a time spent volunteering overseas meant I got to know a shed load of dodgy missionaries plus all the CU products I've met over the years have collectively been very off putting.
And though we are considering a local evangelical CofE I see they had a politician who doesn't believe in gay marriage come and speak. Not sure I want to swap one kind of discrimination for another.

Original poster
Madhairday · 08/10/2018 22:57

40 minute sermon? Nah, couldn't be doing with that. Grin

Might be worth having a look at the CofE. Some churches try to present different sides of debate in efforts to get dialogue going and be living to one another. You never know :)

Sorry to hear about history of judgemental churches etc. Hate hearing those sorts of stories, so sad when we get it wrong Flowers

bES BlushFlowers you're very lovely.

OP posts:
BlackeyedSusan · 10/10/2018 07:19

tha depends on which child you ask!

Becca19962014 · 10/10/2018 10:33

bes we'll ask the one who agrees Wink

Am still ill. Swab not back, GP back tomorrow so praying I can see them. Still not well. Getting frustrated and annoyed with my body now - yes that's totally futile!

Resting whenever I can.

drspouse · 10/10/2018 11:31

Still looking at churches and we think we've found a couple that may (fingers crossed, may) work. Both CofE which is what we are at the moment.
Church 1 comes highly recommended by all and sundry, children's provision looks pretty organised, walking distance BUT large = potentially overwhelming, services probably v happy clappy which isn't really us (though they do have a smaller service), big points against it - quite evangelical, again just not us, very worried about association with a fairly well known politician with views we really don't subscribe to.

Church 2 nobody has recommended to us and is further away (short drive), small and looks a bit chaotic from its website BUT it has a children-friendly award, style looks much more us, and it even has something indicating they have heard of how to be autism friendly. Though website looks chaotic, it also looks like they do more multi-sensory/hands on stuff with the kids and it looks quite community focussed (though it's not our local community).

We're just deciding if we should try one of them out this week. Likely just one of us going or maybe with DD.

DS is going to ask - as he has been doing - why he can't go to Sunday School.
I really want to ask the vicar to own his stupid, illegal decision and come and tell DS why he can't go to Sunday school. I think school would be on board with making him (vicar) come into the classroom and tell him.

applesandpears33 · 10/10/2018 11:39

I hope you find a church that suits you. In my experience, it is not only large churches that can be good at including everyone. Sometimes small churches can be good at that too, perhaps due to the life experience of someone in the congregation. It is a hard thing to gauge from the outside though. The best thing to do is probably to go along and ask lots of questions.

Becca19962014 · 10/10/2018 12:21

I think, that you'll have to try the second and see what happens. Honestly you cannot go by what is claimed on websites and their design is more about the person (or multiple people) doing it than the church. Like I've said before the one I went to has a lot of information about having done a lot on mental health awareness and supporting people with mental health issues and, I know from personal experience that hasn't translated into reality, despite claims being made.

Having said that I know there's a church half an hour away (which I can't get to) which has a very chaotic web presence, no mention at all regarding disabilities and is very friendly and understanding. Going by their website you'd avoid it, when I went years ago I mentioned it and the response was "oh x did it but he died a few years ago so we now just add bits, doesn't really matter does it" sort of attitude but they were able to be inclusive without being exclusive if you see what I mean.

I want you to be realistic and, honestly the only way is to try services first and do so over a couple of weeks, though of course the problem then is it being confusing to DS. Of course you can ask, but you may not get the real experience, though perhaps if they'd let you sit in on Sunday school for a week that'd help so you can see?

The first from what you've said doesn't sound like it's appropriate for all of you and that's not beneficial.

Dutchoma · 10/10/2018 13:24

Yes, I think that you should try the second one as well. With the first one you are setting yourself up for conflict from the start.

BlackeyedSusan · 10/10/2018 22:02

go with number two. things have to be right for you. I would not dismiss a more evangelical church if other things were right, but you have to be happy with agreeing to differ on the things you differ on.

The one I left was not a good fit, went for the teaching but when the vicar left it really left not much at all. they were not set up at all for single parents. or disabled. they made the right noises but did not follow through.

Becca19962014 · 10/10/2018 22:20

bes sad to hear about churches like this. They're just nodding in agreement without actually doing anything. If you're not going to do anything then say that. I suspect though it's a case of "everyone must be inclusive so do x, y, z, course then it's up to you" so people do the courses but never put it into practice or forget what they've learnt.

Mine wasn't perfect before but like the one you mention really changed after the vicar left.

I was reading an article today about the good reasons for leaving a church it made interesting, if sad, reading.

MsForestier · 10/10/2018 22:25

40 minute sermon - yikes. I'd have to eat plenty of protein for breakfast to keep full. I haven't attended when our new Priest is on but I've heard rumours that the Bishop has had words regarding the excessive length of his sermons but this has not tamed his enthusiasm.

MsForestier · 10/10/2018 22:26

Perhaps a 40 second sermon - a haiku? GrinHalo

MsForestier · 10/10/2018 22:28

Maybe we need an Extreme Makeover Church edition.

Dutchoma · 11/10/2018 08:19

40 minutes is standard in the church I have (not quite) left. The message could easily be got across in ten minutes.

drspouse · 11/10/2018 09:51

Extreme Makeover Church edition
We so do!
But not just "bring it up to date and have guitars" because that's what most people think "makeover" is.
Have quiet bits.
Have visuals - just sitting in the church should make you feel like you are in the presence of God.
That won't be the same for everyone, so if you think that blonde wood and carpet is where it's at, keep a small chapel with pews and stained glass.
Don't forget liturgy. The church seasons and traditional liturgy are fabulous for multi-sensory stuff. Bells, incense, robes, different coloured hangings, flowers.
Everyone likes traditional hymns, but the children need to learn the choruses to them/simpler more modern hymns too.
Go out and ask people if they want someone to sit with them if they have to leave the service.
Make sure everyone gets communion even if they aren't in the service.
Language should be accessible to all and if you can't make the main bits accessible, provide them in another format e.g. visual, simplified words. If you can't make the Sunday School accessible, get your act together.