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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

"Design your own god" homework

213 replies

AChickenCalledKorma · 06/11/2017 18:35

DD2 is in year 8 and has been asked to design a god/goddess for RS homework. We are an active Christian family and she doesn't want to do it because the Bible says she shouldn't.

I'm interested whether other Christian, Jewish or Muslim parents (or any other faith that has a problem with idols) have had a similar issue arise and how you handled it. Part of me thinks she should just treat the homework as an interesting art project. It's not as if the teacher is asking them to worship what they invent (hopefully!!!). But the other part of me thinks that she has a point and it's good that she's made the connection between what she reads in the Bible and what she's being asked to do.

Allegedly, her older friend refused to do a similar homework and got a detention for it.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 16/11/2017 19:21

I don't put my trust in scientists. I put my trust in the scientific method.

Vitalogy · 16/11/2017 19:47

I just explained that you do not have to trust a scientist or researcher, that's not how it works, science does not progress based on trust. You can know it personally. [facepalm] You can't know it personally unless you have carried out the experiment yourself. You either have to believe or trust them. Just because you read something or hear something someone has said, doesn't make it true, might be, might not. To know it yourself is to be truly sure.

No person measures knowledge. Knowledge is the sum of what can be proved to be true. . Again we're back to the measuring devices Science (from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge")[2][3]:58 is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.[a] Building and organising knowledge.

So judgement is not required I don't think we should ever stop using our own judgement.

Having concluded it is not reasonable to 'believe' in Biocentrism I've not used the word believe.

Because its a fun tradition, symbolizing a snowballs chance in hell of happening. I thought it was for luck. But apparently it has biblical origins.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossed_fingers

Not sure if it's bad form to bring this quote of yours from a few pages back, but this one I think religion would be a lot safer if the leaders just came out and said if we are supposed to take them literally or not. Now I know you aren't religious, but your mindset seems to be that looking towards the leaders, authority, the powers that be are to be trusted before yourself.

Vitalogy · 16/11/2017 19:57

I put my trust in the scientific method. What like the one the scientist used for measuring the speed of light. Are you not bothered about the fudging.
Mainstream science is like a religion in itself.

BertrandRussell · 16/11/2017 20:13

"What like the one the scientist used for measuring the speed of light. Are you not bothered about the fudging.
Mainstream science is like a religion in itself."

No it isn't. It is perfectly possible for scientists not to apply the scientific method properly, hence the requirement for peer review. If applied properly, no fudging is possible.

Oh, and Robert Sheldrakes and his variable speed of light thing has been comprehensively debunked.

Julie8008 · 16/11/2017 20:44

You can't know it personally unless you have carried out the experiment yourself We will just have to agree to disagree, you obviously mean something different than myself when we talk about knowledge. I can but do not always need to carry our experiments to know facts to be true. I can independently verify them multiple times, I can observe them to be true and the proof can be personally studied from first principles. Also as knowledge is predictive, it can be personally proven by the outcomes of its predictions.

I don't think we should ever stop using our own judgement
I never said to stop using personal judgement, just that it is not a reliable way to determine truth.

I've not used the word believe Then what word would you use? Disbelieve, faith, reasonable belief or knowledge?

I thought it was for luck That was maybe its origin, I certainly don't believe in 'luck' as anything other than a colloquially used fun tradition. What is your point?

if the leaders just came out and said if we are supposed to take them literally or not You have misunderstood. I did not say I would accept proof by authority, I do not. I understand however that a lot of religious people do, and because the Bible is used to justify all manner of things by all manner of people we would be much safer from these fundamentalists if religious authorities disavowed them of their 'fundamentalist' interpretations of the Bible.

What like the one the scientist used for measuring the speed of light.
You can go into your kitchen right now and measure the speed of light yourself, where is the fudging, where is the religion?

Vitalogy · 17/11/2017 16:13

no fudging is possible. No, never been any fudging in the all mighty science.

Oh, and Robert Sheldrakes and his variable speed of light thing has been comprehensively debunked. Is that right. I suppose it depends on who's doing the debunking.

BertrandRussell · 17/11/2017 16:19

Of course there's been fudging. Scientists are just as capable of being dishonest as any other group of people. But if the scientific method is applied properly, and if the results are properly peer reviewed it will always be found out.

Vitalogy · 17/11/2017 16:25

We will just have to agree to disagree Yes lets.

I never said to stop using personal judgement, just that it is not a reliable way to determine truth. For ones own truth it is.

I've not used the word believe Then what word would you use? Disbelieve, faith, reasonable belief or knowledge? To know personally.

You can go into your kitchen right now and measure the speed of light yourself, where is the fudging, where is the religion? I didn't say light had anything to do with religion. I'm not religious either way.

Vitalogy · 17/11/2017 16:29

Of course there's been fudging. Scientists are just as capable of being dishonest as any other group of people. I'm glad we can agree on that at least.

OutwiththeOutCrowd · 17/11/2017 18:45

Well, I’m a scientist and I have never knowingly done any fudging. (I do like a bit of fudge though!)

But yes, scientists are only human. They make mistakes, have their foibles and prejudices - and a small number of them are not above fudging results.

Yet, they all understand, or should understand, the importance of the scientific method.

Even Rupert Sheldrake says he respects the scientific method. You could argue about the design of his experiments or the conclusions he draws from them but he does seem to be sincere in his desire to follow the scientific method.

He is not anti-science, more anti-establishment.

With respect to his questioning of the speed of light data, I think he is unlikely to be correct for the simple reason that scientists actually like anomalies! They would fall on this sort of thing with glee. It would give them something to ponder and they would try to adjust their theories to fit the data better.

I feel that Rupert Sheldrake is assigning a religious sensibility to the scientific establishment, which is undeserved. Science is always in a state of flux, though I do appreciate that individual scientists may find it difficult to let go of fondly held ideas. Sweeping inconsistencies under the carpet so the status quo can be maintained pertains more to religious ideologies.

I find him more interesting for the meta-level questions he raises, like why there are scientific ‘laws’ and whether they are fixed or evolving and similarly why physical constants are, well, constant and take values which allow for the development of complex forms and ultimately life.

This may all be in the realm of metaphysics but hard not to be a little curious about such matters

I do like mavericks. They provoke debate.

Julie8008 · 17/11/2017 19:15

I think I have come to the end of the road on this specific topic, as
Vitalogy is using a very unique meaning of the word truth.

Science does not uncover absolute truths. It tries to find the most accurate way of describing reality. When we have a high enough confidence that a theory aligns with reality it may get called a fact but science will drop it like a hot potato as soon as it is shown not to align with reality, or an even more accurate description comes along.

I prefer to adopt the truths that I have confidence in aligning with reality.
Vitalogy is using truth to mean describing personal beliefs, which to me is a complete anathema unless everyone lives in a different reality. I could be wrong but I work on the assumption we all live in the same reality and what is true does not depend on a persons judgement or belief. There cannot be different truths about the universe depending on who you ask, or airplanes would literally fall from the sky.

Vitalogy · 17/11/2017 19:39

Julie8008 Been great chatting. Best wishes.

Julie8008 · 17/11/2017 19:44

FYI Morphic resonance is not falsifiable which means there is zero evidence for it, aka pseudoscience. In other words Rupert Sheldrake just made some stuff up and claimed it was true because he said so.

On the variable speed of light. There is no debunking needed, Sheldrake either lied or just got it wrong. The experimental results of the speed of light did indeed vary pre 1960, however the reason for this was in fact that the experimental equipment was not very accurate. Over time experimental techniques and machines got better and since 1983 all results have shown the speed of light in a vacuum to be exactly a constant of 299,792,458 meters per second.

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