Prayer focus in schools

[annandale]

I seem to be starting a lot of potentially goody threads at the moment but I am trying very hard not to be goady, while being aware that this issue makes me truculent.

I am FB friends with a woman who is part of a Hillsong church. She works as part of a team aiming to open prayer spaces in schools. She frequently posts things about being thankful to open new prayer spaces in schools. As far as I'm aware this hasn't happened at ds'so school and I don't want it to. I'd imagine the focus would be on primary schools though.

My hackles rise at any attempt to get an increased religious practice into British schools. But am I just prejudiced? Has this happened at a school you know, has it been positive?

Christian contemplative prayer looks a lot like meditation so some Christians object to it because they don't like anything from non Christian contexts. The practice of Christians praying in silence gives back to the desert fathers and mothers of the 6th century so it is part of our tradition. So lots if crosssover with mindfulness.

Yy Green re mindfulness. It looks a whole lot like some of the ancient Christian monastic stuff too, eg Brother Lawrence's Practise of the Presence of God which was all about focusing in on the moment. I find it fascinating and practise Christian mindfulness, can't say I've heard of any Christians being opposed to mindfulness. It has proven benefits for mental health.

Yes as long as you are not chanting a mantra to another deity as far as I'm concerned.

It's really not at all surprising that similar practices should arise in different religions (or indeed, be applicable in a non-religious context) if, like mindfulness they have an observable effect on the human brain. Buddhist monks seem amenable to hopping into MRI machines and whatnot to allow research into brain plasticity etc. I suppose they're not attached to there being any supernatural explanation for the effects of prayer and meditation on their minds.

Sorry, a bit OT but its something I find rather interesting.

Praying Carmelite nuns have been shown to have similar MRI brain scan patterns to meditating Buddhist monks. Even the scans of those taking psychedelic drugs show related features. Fascinating to have an objective correlate to subjective spiritual experiences.

(I know of a local vicar who won't hear of having yoga sessions in his church hall. It seems a shame to me!)

Prayer spaces can be multi denominational.

It is particularly useful for Salah, and can be used by other creeds. Plus atheist meditation (whether Buddhist or not)

Now, if a school has no spare space, this may well be something that gets repurposed. But if there is space, it provides for the spiritual needs of many and is no detriment to those who do not use it (in the same way that the climbing wall in the gym that is only ever used by those who go to the lunchtime club does not harm those who prefer other sports to foster their bodily development)

How are these "prayer" spaces used?
At our school movement outside the classroom is quite heavily supervised. At breaktime children are outside, even toilet breaks are noted as some kids use long and frequent use as an excuse to bunk off and get into mischief.

How are "enlightenment" breaks regulated? How do you know that students are not simply texting friends or having a nap? Is only one student allowed at a time? Is is policed?

"Prayer spaces can be multi denominational."

But calling it a "prayer space" excludes people of no faith.

Prayer space does not cater for those do do not want to pray - shocking, who knew?

It is just plain wrong to fail to support the spiritual development of those who do with to have that support, simply because some will never choose to avail themselves of it.

i think more tolerance is needed.

It makes no difference whatsoever to those who have a utilitarian view of education as solely academics that there is provision for those who see more to education than the classroom.

The point is that a quiet room is a good thing-and everyone can use it. A prayer room is excluding non religious people.

Our local primary has a " quiet contemplation room".

It's basically a time out for kids who have lost the rag.

"It makes no difference whatsoever to those who have a utilitarian view of education as solely academics that there is provision for those who see more to education than the classroom."

That such an arrogant comment. Typical of a particular sort of Christian.

Not limited to Christians, as it was me who made it.

I do think that tolerance does need to work in all directions. You might see that as arrogant, but it's seriously not where I'm coming from.

I don't want to tolerate christian indoctrination.

Why should me kids have to pray in school and be taught bible stories as fact?

My DD ( who was 6) thought the story of Noah's Ark she was told by her teacher was a history lesson.

Disgusting.

I'm agnostic - there's nothing I've ever heard that can make me Believe in any particular God

I detest the thought of prayer rooms - it's another way that religious people are trying to indoctrinate our children. Children love to learn and are like little sponges - what a fantastic time to hook them and reel them in. the church should feel disgraced at using this platform - they have no right to bleat their fairy tales to our children

Religious families chose church as their platform - you crack in using that forum, don't try to slyly hide, like a wolf in sheeps clothing

Why not ask for deep thinking rooms - in spiritual, I answer to myself and I do what's right according to my own morals and thoughts and that's what I want for my children. There are far too many sanctimonious religious people out there who do all sorts of wrong because they can hide behind the thin religious veil - i answer ti myself, someone I can't hide from, those who use religion as a way to get a free pardon when doing wrong are just wrong! No excuses or amount of Hail Marys will change that!

"I do think that tolerance does need to work in all directions. You might see that as arrogant, but it's seriously not where I'm coming from."

What do you mean?

My DD ( who was 6) thought the story of Noah's Ark she was told by her teacher was a history lesson.

So presumably you corrected her error of misunderstanding just as I did when my then 6 yr old came home and told me they have minotaurs in Greece.

Like it or not, the Judeo Christian tradition is foundational to much of Western law, culture and philosophy (and even science). A working knowledge of that tradition and its influence is a part of basic education in our society.

Why not ask for deep thinking rooms

Our base offices have "multi faith and contemplation rooms". I see similar names in most of the clients I visit. Quite often there is a strap line along the lines of "all welcome for quiet reflection and prayer"

I'd assume "deep thinking" was some internal department rather than a publicly available quiet space. Sounds like something from W1A :)

So presumably you corrected her error of misunderstanding j

Yes, but it took me two years. The teacher ( a christian) presented it as thruth and my daughter trusted her.

The teacher ( a christian) presented it as thruth and my daughter trusted her.

If the teacher persisted in saying it was historical fact after you had said it was not proven/a story about flood events which would have felt universal to people of the day then I would raise it with the school.

Mainstream Christianity does not teach this stuff as historical and didn't when I was at school. It may align them with events that did happen eg parting of the red sea from memory is a natural phenomenon which occurs from time to time and may well be the origin of the story.

"Like it or not, the Judeo Christian tradition is foundational to much of Western law, culture and philosophy (and even science). A working knowledge of that tradition and its influence is a part of basic education in our society."

Of course it is. I do not know anyone who objects to their children being taught about religion.

Of course it is. I do not know anyone who objects to their children being taught about religion.

I've had exactly that experience. All mention of religion being erased from schools as it is indoctrination - my more evangelical friends still promote exactly this position.

The less evangelical simply want Humanism added to the list of religions (although whether this is justified in terms of numbers I'm not really sure).

"All mention of religion being erased from schools as it is indoctrination - my more evangelical friends still promote exactly this position"
Fair enough. In my 15 years as a school parent-most of them as a governor I have never met anyone who thinks that children should not be taught about religion. But I bow to your greater experience.

But calling it a "prayer space" excludes people of no faith

and calling the Special Needs hub a special needs hub excludes people without special needs. Personally, I still think it is a good thing that it is there for those people it is aimed at though.

Same as it is good that peripatetic music teacher come into schools for those who want to pursue music beyond the general class lesson. Everyone doesn't access them, so by your logic they shouldn't be allowed to be in school because some dc are excluded??

We could go on and on. A good school provides all sorts of opportunities for all sorts of learning by all sorts of children. No, not everyone will access all of them, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't happen.

"Personally, I still think it is a good thing that it is there for those people it is aimed at though."
But why can't it be for everyone? Changing the name would achieve that.