Prayer focus in schools

[annandale]

I seem to be starting a lot of potentially goody threads at the moment but I am trying very hard not to be goady, while being aware that this issue makes me truculent.

I am FB friends with a woman who is part of a Hillsong church. She works as part of a team aiming to open prayer spaces in schools. She frequently posts things about being thankful to open new prayer spaces in schools. As far as I'm aware this hasn't happened at ds'so school and I don't want it to. I'd imagine the focus would be on primary schools though.

My hackles rise at any attempt to get an increased religious practice into British schools. But am I just prejudiced? Has this happened at a school you know, has it been positive?

What are you worried about, Bertrand? You can't imagine that Christian children get any advantage from what you believe is nothingness or worse. Your children are not being deceived by anything, so they should be tickity boo.

No- HumanistsUK is a Humanist group.

Spiritual, Moral, Social and Cultural education is de rigour. Schools have to address the spiritual element.

"What are you worried about, Bertrand?"
I'm not worried about anything. I just believe that religion should have no place in public life.

Spiritual and Christian are not synonyms.

No reason why a school couldn't start a branch of the secular society as one of their clubs. Then they could sit around and talk about nothing and emptiness.

They are related, though.

Christianity deals with the spiritual world.

Oh, come on, of course it's an atheist group.

Christianity deals with the spiritual world of Christians.

Also. You don't know what secular means.

Of course humanist is atheist.

You can't ignore that humans are spiritual, even if just for human potential, rather than a greater God.

Atheist = knowing there is no God, despite having a God-shaped gap.

A quiet room or a space for reflection is a good idea. A prayer space where children are taken and led in prayer is a bad idea.

Any such space should be very clearly non denominational - airports and hospitals generally have a prayer room very clearly available to those of any religion, and this should be extended to those of no religion requiring a place for quiet reflection or thought or meditation.

There should be no enforced religion in schools, its repugnant and outdated. The collective worship requirement is absolutely immoral.

Spiritual development is not the same as leading unformed minds to worship a specific idea of god.

Enlighten me, then.

I don't mind the concept of a prayer space at all, but I don't see why it can't simply be labelled a quiet space - for anyone who wants to pray, meditate or just sit quietly. There's no real reason I can see to just call it a prayer space.

well if you don't like prayer spaces in school you would just about collapse at my ds school having their own chapel!

We had a prayer room at my secondary school and it was well used with lots of pupils popping in at lunchtime.

Oh and our local hospital has a prayer room too, but no doubt somebody will object to that as well!

Humanists are atheists. But not all atheists are humanists.

Secular just means not religious. So a secular society means that religion has no place in public life. Very many religious people are also secularists.

I am not ignoring that humans are spiritual- that is why I don't think that in school the spiritual side of children's development should be Christian based. It excludes too many children.

I am happy to have a discussion about this, but please stop with the "god shaped hole" stuff.

why does it need to be a christain presence??????????
muslims,jews,indigineous people,rastas,wicians,pagans etc.
may want to pray as well.
a quiet area or haven yes
pushing christianity is wrong.

i am not a christian but i am spiritual

Why does calling it a prayer space make it Christian, is this a specific campaign?

And how is it different from any other multi faith/contemplation/quiet room available in most workplaces? (we have two in my base office because they are so well used by a whole range of people).

"Why does calling it a prayer space make it Christian, is this a specific campaign? "
This is a specific Christian campaign. But calling it a prayer space makes it exclusively religious, if not specifically Christian.

So a secular society means that religion has no place in public life

There is a big difference between saying religion should not dictate law and policy and that it shouldn't be visible though. Providing faith/contemplation rooms is allowing private practice, not imposing religion on anyone who sees the label on the door.

There used to be a clear distinction between secularism and atheist humanism. My Father (who was religious) was just as at home in the Secular Society as me (non religious). That simply wouldn't be the case now and I think it is a pity. Its also why I'm no longer a member.

This is a specific Christian campaign

Oh fair enough, I wouldn't be happy with evangelism in the school either

"My Father (who was religious) was just as at home in the Secular Society as me (non religious). That simply wouldn't be the case now".

Not sure what you mean- I know several Christian secularists.........

Secularism is absolutely nothing to do with atheism or humanism. Not sure what you mean by atheist humanism.

"I often wonder why people are so negative about a Christian presence in schools, especially when it is totally voluntary. I can only think that it is a good thing. I can't see any downsides at all. Are atheist children missing out or put at a disadvantage because their classmates have found something uplifting"

its evangelising, that's why it's wrong and a negative thing.

Some (not all) Christians believe its their duty to evangelise, either because their denomination openly requires it of them or because they personally believe it. Though schools are meant to give all religions a platform evangelism is only tolerated from the Christians, and an evangelistic atheist, Rastafarian or Wiccan would never be given a platform. Its hypocritical.

The act of worship broadly Christian in nature requirement made of schools means the status quo on religion in schools cannot even be properly questioned and examined.

Christians have a massive entrenched power advantage throughout the British establishment, but if this is ever questioned the default reaction in defence of the privilege given to Christian groups in terms of access to the unformed minds of children in an official context is to behave as though Christians are a persecuted minority group who everyone loves to pick on. In fact the case is that the group holding a disproportionate amount of power for no good reason except "this is how we have always done it and it serves the needs of those with power" should be questioned at every opportunity.

Fffion Why do you think your way is the only way? I describe myself as spiritual btw.

I do not have a problem with something like Mindfulness being taught in schools, I believe that would be beneficial for children of all faiths or without a faith. Learning about religion I also think is important but not to push one particular religion as fact.