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Philosophy/religion

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Mormons versus Baptists, Help

18 replies

Cailleach666 · 10/09/2017 07:08

Family.
I am stuck in the middle. My mother is converting the Mormon faith. Baptist sister is furious as I care for our mother and "allowed " this to happen.. Sister sees Mormons as a Satanic cult.
I thought they are both Christian religions ??

I am atheist but stuck in the middle

OP posts:
annandale · 10/09/2017 07:13

Mormons aren't Christian in my view but they aren't Satanic either. And even if she were converting to Satanism, how would it be your fault?? I'd your mother so vulnerable that she's not fit to make any decisions?

If you want to engage ask your sister what her practical concerns are - money?

Cailleach666 · 10/09/2017 07:17

Mormons aren't Christian in my view

Why do you say that?

OP posts:
Cailleach666 · 10/09/2017 07:20

My mother is elderly, still has her faculties, but has a learning disability. So yes a little vulnerable but still deserves agency.

OP posts:
annandale · 10/09/2017 08:48

Mormons don't believe in the Trinity, don't believe in original sin, yes they say Jesus was divine but wasn't born divine. I should say that I am an atheist as well and things like original sin are exactly what put me off Christianity. There's also all the stuff about magic spectacles brought by an angel, which I would put in the same box as the other miracle stories - they have meaning but aren't true in a factual sense.

I would ask youthat sister not to bully your mother and to leave you out of it unless she thinks your mother is in some genuine danger. Danger can't include danger to her immortal soul because you don't believe in it so can't be asked to act as if you do.

Cailleach666 · 10/09/2017 10:03

Danger can't include danger to her immortal soul

THis is exactly the "danger " my sister is worried about.

OP posts:
annandale · 10/09/2017 14:46

Well, ultimately you don't think that is an issue. Just say you don't think it's a cult and let them talk about it themselves.

Jason118 · 13/09/2017 09:05

Or to equalise the conversation you could say that to a certain extent all religions are cults, just some are more popular than others - one mans bloke in a cave revelation is not too dissimilar to another's one bloke up a mountain revelation.

newbian · 13/09/2017 09:13

The only concern here is theological. Mormons do not have what most scholars consider to be "orthodox Christian" faith. They believe things like Jesus came back to North America and that all saints (i.e. male members) get their own planet in the afterlife along with their spouses who they marry for all eternity.

But in terms of day-to-day I don't think it's any more dangerous (physically/mentally) to join a Mormon church than a Baptist one. I've heard good things and horror stories about both. Depends on the individual group and leaders as with any church.

MysweetAudrina · 13/09/2017 09:17

I was a fully active Mormon for 13 years. I have not been active for the last 3. I am still really good friends with most of the members and was out celebrating a 60th birthday party with 20 of them on Saturday nights. Mormon's strongly view themselves as Christian. Christ is the head of their Church. They believe that the gospel was restored in its fullness through Joseph Smith their prophet and founder. They believe that all Churches have elements of truth but that the Mormon church as it in its fullness. Some Christian denominations refuse to accept that the Mormon Church is Christian as it does believe in the Trinity i.e that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one, rather they believe that they are three separate beings united in purpose. They do not believe either in transubstantiation. I really do not think it is a cult and my reasons for thinking this way are that I was the only member of my family to get baptised in the Church but my joining it did not distance me from my family in fact it brought me alot closer to them. When I left I was not distanced from the active members I am still in close contact with them. When I am out with them they do not pressure me to return (they would like me to but they never make me feel bad for not doing so). While I was a member of the Church I have up smoking, drinking etc... I lived a very full life and their sense of community is amazing. When I had my youngest child members called to my house every evening for 2 weeks with a homemade dinner. The reason I am no longer active is because I struggle with the concept of God and Jesus and generally things I can't rationalise so I don't think any religion is for me but for people who do have a strong faith in God etc.. I think you could do an awful lot worse than the mormon church. Of course that is only my experience and everyone's will be different.

MysweetAudrina · 13/09/2017 09:19
  • doesn't believe in the Trinity *gave up smoking
Akire · 13/09/2017 09:23

Mormon do believe Jesus is divine he is the son of God! Just that God Jesus are seperate people with idly forms. Not just Jesus and God is some sort unshaply form. Because god created us in his image.. which he couldn't do if he didn't have one himself!

picklemepopcorn · 13/09/2017 09:38

I wouldn't worry about the theology of it. Just try and reassure your sister that you will keep an eye on mum and not let anyone take advantage of her, but that which faith she and sis choose to follow is entirely up to them.

Bekabeech · 13/09/2017 10:22

I would worry that if your Mother is vulnerable then is she really capable of changing her religion?

I have had Mormon babysitters, lovely girls. I also don't believe they are Christian - one yard stick given to me once was if they have an extra book of the bible or guide to the "truth".
On the other hand I have known Baptists who express very strange and sometimes unpleasant opinions/theology (and not just on homosexuality). But others are really an inspiration.

And personally I'd think there will be a lot of surprises about who is in "heaven". Which almost certainly include a few Mormons (and all other faiths, and none).

Fernanie · 13/09/2017 10:30

"Baptist" is a bit of a spectrum. And totally different depending which side of the Atlantic you're on. Are you in America, OP?

AlexanderHamilton · 13/09/2017 10:35

You all know the Bible
Is made of Testaments old and new
You been told it's just those two parts
Or only one if you're a Jew

But what if I were to tell you
There's a fresh third part out there
Which was found by a hip new prophet
Who had a little Donny Osmond flair?

Have you heard of the All-American Prophet?
The blonde-haired, blue-eyed voice of God
He didn't come from the Middle East
Like those other holy men
No, God's favorite prophet was All-American

I'm gonna take you back to Biblical times, 1823
An American man named Joe living on a farm
In the holy land of Rochester, New York

You mean the Mormon Prophet Joseph Smith?
That's right, that young man spoke to God
He spoke to God, and God said
"Joe, people really need to know that the Bible
Isn't two parts, there's a part three to the Bible, Joe
And I, God, have anointed you to dig up this part three
That is buried by a tree on a hill in your backyard"

Wow, God says go to your backyard and start digging?
That makes perfect sense

Joseph Smith went up on that hill
And dug where he was told
And deep in the ground
Joseph found shining plates of gold

"What are these Golden Plates?
Who buried them here and why?"
Then appeared an Angel
His name was Moroni "I am Moroni"

The All-American Angel
My people lived here long, long ago
This is a history of my race
Please read the words within
We were Jews who met with Christ
But we were All-American

But don't let anybody see these plates except for you
They are only for you to see
Even if people ask you to show the Plates to them, don't
Just copy them onto normal paper
Even though this might make them question
If the Plates are real or not
This is sort of what God is going for

Joseph took the Plates home
And wrote down what he found inside
He turned those Plates into a book
Then he rushed into town and cried

"Hey, God spoke to me and gave me
This blessed ancient tome
He hath commanded me to publish it
And stick it in every home"

Wow, so the Bible is actually a trilogy
And The Book of Mormon is Return of the Jedi?
I'm interested

Now many people didn't believe the Prophet Joseph Smith
They thought he'd made up this part three
That was buried by a tree on the hill in his backyard

"Liar" But Joe said "This is no lie
Speak to God all the time
And he told me to head West"

"So I'll take my part three from the hill with the tree
Feel free if you'd like to come along with me
To the Promised Land"

"The Promised Land?"
"Paradise on the West Coast
Nothing but fruit and fields as far as the eye can see"

Have you heard of the All-American Prophet?
He found a brand new book about Jesus Christ
We are following him to Paradise
We call ourselves Mormon
And our new religion is All-American

Wow, how much does it cost?
The Mormons kept on searching for
That place to settle down
And every time they thought they'd found it
They got kicked out of town

And even though people wanted
To see the Golden Plates
Joseph never showed 'em

Now comes the part of our story
That get a little bit sad
On the way to the Promised Land
Mormons made people mad

Joseph was shot by an angry mob
And knew he'd soon be done
"You must lead the people now
My good friend, Brigham Young"

"Oh God, why are you letting me die
Without having me show people the Plates
They'll have no proof I was telling the truth or not
They'll have to believe it just 'cause
Oh, I guess that's kinda what you were going for"

The Prophet Joseph Smith died for what he believed in
But as followers, they kept heading West
And Brigham Young led them to Paradise
A sparkling land in Utah they called Salt Lake City

And there, the Mormons multiplied
And made big Mormon families
Generation after generation
Until finally, they made me
And now it's my job to lead you
Where those early settlers were led long ago

Have you heard of the All-American Prophet?

The next in line to be the voice of God

He's gonna do something incredible
And be Joseph Smith again
Because Kevin Price the Prophet is All-American

If you order now
We'll also throw in a set of steak knives
All-American

Jason118 · 13/09/2017 11:15

Hilarious, thank you for sharingConfusedGrinGrinGrin

gabsdot · 17/09/2017 10:33

I don't really understand why people think Mormons aren't Christian.
I am Mormon and I love Jesus and believe He is the son of God and died to redeem us all from our sins. Isn't that a Christian belief?
As for the OP. Perhaps suggest to your sister that she speak to the missionaries or the local Bishop about her concerns. I'm sure they'll be willing. It's an understandable worry for her as is any big life change your mother might make.

Cailleach666 · 17/09/2017 13:44

gadsdot, I am not a fan of religion, but from what little I know of the Mormon faith it seems far more reasonable than the Baptist faith.

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