Christian Prayer Thread - Bible Study spinoff

[MaryBS]

Hi everyone,

This is one I did the other week, and I got a lot out of it, so what I suggest is, if you would like to read the following:

2 Samuel 11 and 12:1-23

and think about how the writer shows his approval/disapproval of David's actions, and what message we can draw from it.

ohh mary will try sometime today honest. Haven't picked up my bible in so long. In fact have lost my study bible, not a clue where it's gone.

Brilliant, thanks Mary. Will definitely get to this tonight.

A few random first thoughts from me, to start us off.

Ch. 11 is, I think, very visual, almost like a film. We see the events unfolding, but are not given anyone's thoughts or feelings. We watch David digging himself deeper and deeper into trouble, but it's only with that little simple sentence at the end of ch.11 - "But the Lord was not pleased with what David had done" that the story is brought to a halt. Those words are sooo simple, but sooo ominous.

(Reminds me of the language of Genesis 1 v18 "he also made the stars"!!!!)

To make the disapproval of David clearer, the writer contrasts David's dishonest actions with Uriah's integrity and sympathy with his fellows. He will not do something as simple as visit his wife, because he knows that his fellow soldiers cannot do the same - even though they would never know about it. ( - not sure that I live up to those standards - denying myself, when apparently no-one else would even know about it. Good lesson during lent. David certainly does not live up to Uriah's standards, although later, to his credit, he does not try to make any excuses nor to justify himself.

I do like the way, later on, that David also does not beat himself up when he has been forgiven. He accepts the Lords forgiveness and moves on in his life . . .

Ooops. Dss getting hungry.

God bless all.

OK so I have read and re-read the passage several times and I have just realised that David was trying to cover his tracks by calling Uriah back from war to be with his wife. Uriah was however humbled by his fellow soldiers and refused to spend time enjoying himself whilst they were still at war and away from their families. David tried again to get Uriah to visit his wife by inviting him for food and drink and getting him drunk. This again failed and Uriah chose to sleep with the servants.
David had to choose a drastic course of action and dragged Joab into his plan.
After the murder of Uriah, David took Bathsheba as one of his wives and they had a son.
When the Lord sent Nathan with a message for David, David did not see his own sins in the story Nathan told. He was very quick to judge the actions of others though. When he realised that the message was from God and that the sin comitted in the story was actually his sin, he was remorseful. God did not intend for David to die but declared that David must be punished. The wives that David had inherited from Saul were to be taken in public by a neighbour to cause humiliation to David. This was punishment for comitting adultery. It was also told that David would lose his son born to him by Bathsheba as punishment for murder.
David tried to show God that he was sorry and prayed for forgiveness and mercy for his son but God had said that his son would die and his son did die.
David showed great strength of faith though as when he found out that his son was dead, he worshipped in the House of The Lord.
He returned to his wife and they had a son who was named Solomon.

So, I have read the passage, I understand the passage but not sure that I actually get message.

Can anyone help me out?

All valid and good points!

Well, what we found in our study group is that each of us found a different message! Probably due to our different backgrounds and experiences, and each one relevant to a message of preaching what the passage is trying to say.

Where you've both covered a particular area, I've not duplicated what you've put (so please don't think I'm disregarding what you've both said!)

I picked up on the beginning of Ch 11, "the time when kings go out to battle", David stayed at home and sent Joab instead. Not a crime, not a sin, but 'not what kings do'. If he'd gone to war 'as he should have done' ..., And then David got up "late one afternoon", implying he'd be idle, and in his idleness, gazed on a woman bathing. If he had looked away, what then...?

So, you could try thinking along the lines of a minor thing escalating, with David trying to cover things up, and failing, and committing multiple murders. I felt this is a lesson we could learn from, to stop sins before they happen or before they get "too big" to handle.

Someone else picked up about David's frailty, yet essential decentness, yet he is deemed worthy to be the ancestor of Jesus.

Someone else picked up how he shrugged off his child's death.

I've deliberately not said TOO much, so if you wish you can think a little more on it. There are other parallels and messages I think that can be drawn out.

From an historical point of view, it is believed that this story of David was written post-Exile, in a period which was generally regarded as anti-monarchic. If you are into Jewish history, you may like to think on that...

I think that it's important to look at David's life, isn't it? He loved God completely - stripped himself almost naked and danced through the streets as worship (check that one out, Anglicans, who disapprove of clapping in church!) But he was human and sinned - rather dramatically.

I've always seen the message of these events as showing us that even the great in faith can go horribly wrong, but they can also be restored to faith and forgiven - perhaps after painful and horrible consequences have been encountered. If David can be forgiven, so can we.

(Though now I'm wondering if I would be so forgiving of a church leader who committed adultery and murder, and then came back saying he'd been forgiven?!)

MaryBS - thanks for your thoughts, they definately helped me to understand this passage better.

This morning, as I was pondering over this passage in my head, I believe God sent me a direct message. My boys both have comforters, one has a blanky and dummy and the other has a monkey (which he sucks and is consequently called Stinky!). DS1 deliberately trod on blanky this morning whilst wearing his shoes to which I said "don't do that, thats really spiteful" then DS2 said "I'm going to tread on Stinky when I have muddy shoes on" and DS1 said "thats not very nice is it?".

Do as to others as you would wish to be done to you - isn't that a quote from the Bible?

Talk about a direct comparison to the story of David. If he had done to Uriah as he would wish Uriah to do to him, he wouldn't have lost a son would he?

Thank you God for this message.

NQGU - a good point, which could be developed further (if you wish) by the style of writing in this piece compared to other passages you might wish to quote (perhaps you'd care to suggest a good counterbalance to this passage?). For this passage was definitely anti-David...

Uriah was a fine upstanding man, wasn't he? The writer makes a big point of telling us what a good man he was. Even drunk, he was honourable and remembering his duty.

During our tutorial, I came up with the thought it would have actually been potentially awkward for David if the baby HAD survived. Would he have proclaimed him his son, given the timescales? Would he have let people think he was Uriah's son (although with the grief he showed, that would be difficult).

And yes, despite all he had done, David showed repentance, asked for forgiveness and was forgiven. That IS comforting, and can give us hope.

not done the reading yet, just marking this thread for me to come back to