Why do people claim witches do not exist?

[Rockpebblestone]

Watching the One Show last night and heard this. It made me wonder why.

Personally I view witchcraft as a sort of 'belief system' related to the practice of rituals in an attempt to influence events. Whether you believe there is any truth in this (belief system), or power behind the rituals, does not relate to the fact that there are people who regard themselves as practising witchcraft and thus are witches.

So why say there is no such thing as witches?

My username gives it away, as I am a practising Wiccan. I am not a practising witch, as such. I see it as something slightly different. I have enjoyed reading all the pps, fascinating debate. As with many of the rituals of Christianity, much of what wiccans do is symbolic. I don't believe I can fly on a broomstick and turn people in to frogs. However, I do show reverence and respect to our ancestors, and their understanding of the natural world around them, the relationship between the seasons, cycles of the moon and the impact this had on their daily lives. This was particularly relevant to cultivating food and gathering medicinal herbs...all crucial to staying alive!

This is a very special time of year for wiccans. You won't find me in a pointy hat and chucking stuff in a cauldron (I make my witches brew in a teapot ;)), but all pagans and wiccans will be remembering the dead, welcoming the spirits of our departed loved ones into our homes, and holding a place for them at the table. Blessed be everyone ⭐️

priest
priːst
noun
1.
an ordained minister of the Catholic, Orthodox, or Anglican Church, authorized to perform certain rites and administer certain sacraments.
"the priest celebrated mass at a small altar off the north transept"
synonyms: clergyman, clergywoman, minister (of religion), cleric, ecclesiastic, pastor, parson, churchman, churchwoman, man/woman of the cloth, man/woman of God, father; More
2.
a mallet used to kill fish caught when angling.

Exists.

witch
wɪtʃ
noun
1.
a woman thought to have evil magic powers, popularly depicted as wearing a black cloak and pointed hat, and flying on a broomstick.
synonyms: sorceress, enchantress, occultist, necromancer, Wiccan; More
2.
informal
an ugly or unpleasant old woman.
synonyms: hag, crone, harpy, harridan, termagant, she-devil; More

Does not exist.

You can claim to be using one of the definitions further down the list, but only if you're just as happy to assume that people who say "priest" mean "mallet" as you are to assume that people who say "witch" mean "someone who claims that wyttchecraffte is their religion".

I don't understand the question. Obviously there are people who call themselves witches. Or Wiccans, if they follow that couple who thought it up in the 1940s- was it the Valentes?

What there isn't is magic.

When people say "witches don't exist", they mean "women who have evil magic powers don't exist", not "wiccans/people who claim to do magic" don't exist.

Just like if I had my ghost religion, people could say "ghosts don't exist", it wouldn't mean that I don't exist, it would mean that ghosts as most people understand the word to mean don't exist.

Dear various gods, my grammar is appalling. I hope you get what I'm driving at.

Iced ,'thought to have' is an important part of the definition. Some people do/have thought this way - so this should not be disputed. The thought still exists/existed, amongst certain people.

Gerald Gardner is credited with reinvigorating an interest in Wicca in the early twentieth century. There were much earlier movements, and the roots of Wicca centred around agriculture and fertility can be seen in Neolithic artefacts.

"Thought to have" does not mean "thought by themselves to have". Nobody else, excepting maybe fundamentalist religionists, believes these people have magic powers.

Witches, as defined in definition 1, and as referred to on TV when Halloween is near, do not exist.

It's Halloween. At this time of year, people talk about witches, dress up as witches, etc. When people say "witches don't exist", that's what they're talking about - the witch that little children dress up as when they want to go out trick-or-treating. Because that's what "witch" usually means. Nobody's dressing up like an earnest Wicca "witch" who boils leaves in a teapot and sits in a circle with other "witches" going "so mote it be".

Iced it just says 'thought to have'....no universality or majority stated. Doesn't matter who thinks or thought it.

Okay. Witches exist.

And so do ghosts. I'm a ghost.

Iced, you don't want to go boiling your leaves in the teapot...makes your brew all rancid. Just a gentle warming will do...

I'll bear that in mind, wicca.

Herbal tea is usually best made with water at around 70°C, I've found.

The discussion on the One Show covered actual belief in witches, the supernatural and various people were interviewed.

"the roots of Wicca centred around agriculture and fertility can be seen in Neolithic artefacts."

Well, they can if that's how you choose to interpret them.

Bertrand, how do you interpret them?

The function of a priest though is to act as an 'intermediary' between people and God. If you do not believe in God you could not believe in this function - the 'job role

Dear Lord. Obviously we all believe the person who goes by the title of PRIEST does in fact exist. Exactly the same as we believe the person who goes by the name of WITCH exists.
Now, some people believe that all or some of the functions of the "priest"are as they state they are.
Very few people believe that all or some of the functions of the "witch" are as they state they are.

Again, what are you finding so difficult here?

it just says 'thought to have'....no universality or majority stated. Doesn't matter who thinks or thought it.

That's not what "thought to have" means as a phrase. It does not mean that one person ever had this thought, it means that it is a widely- or commonly-held belief.

It is thought that dogs can't look up - Big Dave down the pub thinks it.

Big Dave 😆

It's interesting that you're all looking at this purely from a Western point of view.

Witchcraft is so believed and feared across a lot of countries, particularly some African countries, that people are murdered over it. Children are subjected to some awful practices because grown adults believe that the children are witches. There have even been instances in this country where people from another culture have murdered a child because of their belief that the child was a witch. One example here, another here, and here.

It's very real for them. Obviously there's no proof that any of the people accused had actually done anything, because that would be impossible, but ignorance and culture and fear don't need proof.

The premise of the thread was "people claim witches do not exist", so we are looking at it from the point of view of people who claim witches don't exist (and explaining why they/we claim that) :)

Are you? That's nice. I'm adding to the debate with another viewpoint.

"Bertrand, how do you interpret them?"

No idea. How can we possibly know what went on in the minds of Neolithic people? We are often wildly wrong about what went on in the minds of people a couple of hundred years ago- the covering of Victorian piano legs is an excellent example of this.

Children aren't getting dressed up to go trick or treating as persecuted people murdered by other, superstitious people, egged on by priests.

They're dressing up in pointy hats and green skin paint and carrying broomsticks. They're dressing up as the modern-day European fantasy character of "a witch" - a (usually) female person who can cast spells and ride a broomstick. Which doesn't exist.

People are murdered all over the world for witchcraft and demon possession and all kinds of things, and it's awful. And other people claim to be able to do witchcraft and sell their services to vulnerable, desperate people. It's horrible. It's also not really relevant to whether or not it's reasonable for people on a light-hearted early evening TV show just before Halloween to say that witches don't exist.

Bertrand, I totally get the piano leg thing...those legs are just salacious!!

And as for those Neolithic artefacts with the massive penises...well I've no clue what those things are all about 😳