Organised Religion

[ACubed]

Firstly I am really not trying to knock anyone's faith, or cause offence, this is just something that's been on my mind a lot recently.

Do followers or organised religions believe that theirs is the only correct one, and all the others are wrong? Because if this is so that would mean the majority of the planet are wrong, and of not its basically saying everyone's right in their own way, which doesn't make much sense either.

I just can't get my head around the fact that people might pick a faith based purely on what thier family follow, and then assume that's the one correct one.

Would love to hear thoughts of this.

Yes, you're right, it isn't a faith.

However atheists do have metaphysical beliefs, even if they don't recognise them as such. The beliefs such as that there is nothing beyond the material, that there is no life after death, that there is no creator are all metaphysical. They are beliefs about the fundamental nature of reality that science cannot test. That is what metaphysical means.

Atheists often think that what they have is an absence of beliefs - especially metaphysical beliefs. Hence their claim that we are all born atheist and that beliefs are somehow added later. But this is wrong. There clearly are metaphysical beliefs that underpin atheism despite many atheists' wish to deny this. And because metaphysical beliefs cannot be tested empirically they have to be taken on trust or by faith. Even if you think 'that's obvious', or 'it's common-sense' these phrases still tell you that this a matter of faith.

That is what leads people to say that atheism is a faith. It's not a religion, of course. But its metaphysical underpinnings are nevertheless a matter of faith.

I'm atheist because I have no reason to believe in any of the gods on offer. I don't currently have a reason to think their is anything beyond the physical world. I'm not choosing my position, I'm accepting it (finally). I also don't believe in all sorts of other things people claim to know exist such as werewolves and moth-men.

And because metaphysical beliefs cannot be tested empirically they have to be taken on trust or by faith.

My position is one of waiting for evidence.

Think of it like a bus stop. I'm waiting for a real bus. I'm told buses are coming and going. I'm told I just need to believe they are there. And I'm told that by adherents to contradictory beliefs.

Im waiting for a bus we can all see.

But that itself is a position that depends on metaphysical beliefs. The assumption that everything that exists must be testable (i.e. Nothing can be said to exist that does not have evidence of the kind produced by science) is itself a metaphysical belief. Like the belief that science can produce sufficient knowledge about reality, it is a belief that is not testable by science. And the idea that everything that exists must have empirical evidence is therefore one that you profess by faith.

So why aren't you Muslim? And why do fill your car with fuel when the indicator says your tank is almost empty?

I am adopting the same level of evidence throughout. You're partitioning off one area. And you have no argument to suggest I should do the same. If I go down the same route as you, that of not basing it on what I can sense, I could end up anywhere, I could believe literally anything!

That's unsatisfactory to me.

Would you be pleased for me if I posted tomorrow and said I believed in Thor?

This sums up me.

What's 'the light'?

Anything good and helpful

I am an atheist and have lots of same friends. I don't know anyone who has metphysical beliefs because I have never seen or experienced anything that suggests their is a meta physical and I don't know anyone who does. How can I have beliefs about something that doesn't exist? When your dead your dead, perfectly natural, why do people subscribe beliefs to me that I don't have?

Anything that manifests in the natural world is testable, that is how the natural world is defined. Unless you're think we live in the matrix. What is meta physical about that?

Lol, a bit humorous, why do religious people always walk towards the light? There are several marine creatures that use light to lure you to your death.

back in the real world, physics is more helpful than metaphysics.

oreo - I think niminy would assert that we all have metaphysical beliefs whether we give a toss about metaphysics or not. Its one of those concepts which you can't really argue against, and there's far more productive things to do than to try.

Is there something in the water? This is at least the 3rd "Waahhhh, I don't understand why people are different to me" thread this week.

OP, some people believe that they are right and anyone who believes something different is wrong. That's just life. And such people tend to be preachy pains in the ass, be they theists or atheists.

As an atheist I don’t know if there is some kind of intelligent entity behind the existence of the universe. I am not certain that there is. I am not certain that there isn’t. I do not think that my stance can be said to come with the covert adoption of unproven ideas.

On the other hand, it is true that in science, as with any system of ideas, it is necessary to start somewhere to get off the ground - working assumptions are required before deductions can be made.

As far as is possible, scientists do try to investigate and revise their assumptions. Science is always a work in progress and scientists are supposed to doubt their own ideas rather than have faith in them.

I am acutely aware of the limitations of science. Even in pure maths, Goedel’s Incompleteness Theorem sets a limit on what is knowable within a mathematical system. And mathematical/scientific models are not reality itself, but only provide a way of approaching tangentially some truths about reality.

And of course there is much in human experience that cannot be reduced to abstract symbols and logic.

Woah didn't realise this one was still going! Yes I was trying to understand different viewpoints, and trying to stimulate some intelligent debate which I think is very important. I'd love for someone to challenge my views because I think it's good to think about them deeply myself once in a while to make sure they still make sense to me.
So presuming you're a Christian, can you honestly say that if you were born into a strict Hindu family you would covert? Surely it would be a case of luck which faith you are raised into?