Feeling really confused - any advice welcome.

[nearlythree]

I think I'm being a bit egocentric starting this thread but I'd really welcome some thoughts/advice/ experiences, esp. from Christians, pagans and anyone in between!

I've always been a Christian - in fact at one point I was going for the priesthood - but my faith has been expressed in different ways throughout my life. During my late twenties I became quite committed and was confirmed as an Anglican. But the church turned out to be quite unpleasant, and my intellectual study of my faith has led me to conclude that much of what Christianity teaches is false or unreliable in terms of the divinity of Jesus, although I still believe in his teachings as to how we should treat one another and ourselves.

My faith doesn't feed me any more. I've had a tough year and I get nothing from my faith, and the less I get the less I want to try. But I have tried, I pray, I read, I go to a different church - but it just isn't happening.

At the same time I've become interested in other spiritual ways. I have been collecting crystals and am starting to meditate. I've decided to get attuned so I can practise Reiki to help heal my children when they are ill. I want to start marking the solstices, and using nature in my sprituality more.

Although this doesn't really form a part of my tradition, it is a part of my family to some extent. My grandmother's family were Irish and I remember during my childhood little 'magic' things like she would never give a bag or purse without putting a coin in it 'so it would never be empty'. I am also sure that my mum described her grandmother as 'a witch'. I've also read a lot of the respected Christian author Elizabeth Goudge's works and her autobiography, and she clearly combined a belief in magic with Christianity.

I think that is what I am trying to do. I'm not interested in tarot or psychic awareness, that's not for me although I have no problem if it is for others. But still I am drawn to something.

If anyone has made it to the end of this, I'd really welcome your thoughts!

Thank you so much!

Hi nearlythree I'm a born-again christian and since I read this thread just over a week ago I've been praying for you on and off. I've got a few words I believe God is saying to you - hope it helps!! Please let me know if you want more explaination!!

Matthew 7 v13-14 and Psalm 46 v1. He doesn't change. We though constantly make choices - free will!

Thank you, lorns, that is kind of you.

hi there this is a very late addition to this thread. i can really relate to what you say nearly three.I have been recently going to a local church for past six months but have suffered horrible postnatal depression and it has really put me off church.

before going to church i had been following pagan path with partner and still celebrate pagan holidays with friends, but at same time have always believed in god and jesus.

I am fed up with a lot of dogma too- dont see why we need clergy, why cant ordinary people celebrate communion,I question creeds etc.
feeling very confused! i have been to the local quaker meeting house which was lovely - they have no hierarchy, creeds etc and are not hung up on theology also an hour of meditative silence was really nice!.i have friends who consider themselves pagan quakers too.

i feel guilty that I have started to 'defect' from my local church and when I mentioned it to the vicar she said about'our enemy' might be leading me away from the church as i am 'young in faith'.This made me feel even guiltier!!the thing is i dont feel led away from christianity, just disillusioned with traditional structure!!
don't know if you can relate to this at all.

A friend of mine mentioned house or community churches but i worry they would be really evangelical. Anyone with similar experiences of disillusionment?

Amazinggrace2001 - when I was young my mum made me go to a church of england church which I found very restrictive. I really didn't relate to the standing up and sitting down, reciting creeds etc. It seemed very formal and not totally biblical! There was something missing!!

In time I started going to a "house type church"* which I really feel at home in. Everyone was so joyful - everyone was involved. People came up to front and prayed, spoke words of knowledge. I saw people healed etc. It was alive. I knew then that these people had found somthing I hadn't before. They were alive - not dictated to by creeds etc. They prayed what they felt - very biblical.

Happy clappy (if you'd like to put it like that)is good - it's praising God (just like in the Psalms) - it's having the gifts of the spirit (just like in Acts)!

*What is a houe-type church? Many people in the 1960/1970s started to hear from God. They saw their churches as stagnant and not moving in the gifts of the spirit. They felt it right to start their own meetings - often in living rooms. When they saw that lots of people felt the same way they started meeting in buildings - getting theological training and the rest is history!!

You know there are some churches like Holy Trinity Brompton in London that although are Church of England are very "free and easy". The man who developed the Alpha course comes from here!

If you want me to help you get in touch with a good church in your area - just let me know where you live and I'd be happy to help!

amazingggrace - do you think it is possible to have a foot in both camps, so to speak? I have left my conventional Christianity behind, but there are some aspects of it that I don't want to give up. Equally there are some aspects of paganism that I want to embrace. I am very disillusioned with church, both our local churches offered us no support when our dcs were ill. I've come to the conclusion that churches exist to serve themselves.

IME house churches are relaxed but are also evangelical. HTB is evangelical- my friend had a very bad experience connected with it - other people obviously love it. If you liked the Quakers why not stick with that? Or the Unitarians - they have Christians as members but also pagans, buddhists etc. Or you could look at the emerging church movement for alternative worship - if you have a university nearby then you will probably have an alternative service. I live nr Cambridge and there is even a Goth one!

I've given up on church an intend to find my own path for now. Don't feel guilty, you are being frightened into going back to church. Find your own way.

Amazinggrace, lorns and n3 - very interesting reading your posts and I can relate to the 'something missing' feeling and have realised that I have had the same 'lack of support' with CofE! but I don't know any different and am unstable to move away from 'the norm' good on you for experimenting whats best and most comfortable for you! I live South Nottinghamshire, and would love to experiment away form CofE although I have been to the 'house meeting/services' before and feel a little shy and overwhelmed, mainly because of the open prayer! at church I generally sit at the back with the kids and do my own thing anyway, but just feel secure doing that, I d wish though that I could be brave enough to channel my beliefs in other ways (group formed) I sometimes attend the 'evening praise' I love it, less formal, but I still think 'I have nothing in common with these people' I call myself a 'sitting on the fence christian' ya know, not quite there yet, even though I have attended the same church for 45 years!

Sorry my thoughts are running away with me, I seem to be rambling, sorry

IME the CofE really lets people down, in terms of how it welcomes children and in its pastoral care away from church. Although I don't share their beliefs my dcs are very welcome and comfortable at our local baptist church, and they know that we go without intending to join them.

Hi sleepysooz - I've looked on the website for the group of churches I go to (New Frontiers). The web address is www.newfrontiers.xtn.org. There is a church in Nottingham called Grace Church. It meets at Notts county FC, Meadow Lane. If that's not near you then there might be one nearer, or that church could let you know of one they recommend.

I understand that you might feel a little overwhelmed by the open prayer. Don't be. No-one is expecting you to join in! Just soak up the atmosphere and teaching. You should find that there is good childrens' work there as well!

Nearlythree - I'm glad that your local Baptist are so understanding. Do they have good kids work there?

Why do you feel you need to do anything? I think you can live a really good life free of all supernatural and superstitious practise.

Living a good life and good things won't get you to heaven! If you don't believe in heaven and hell after you die then it won't bother you anyway!

Lorns - it's a very small village church so only a handful of children, but the minister is a woman with a young family so they are aware of their needs. I have to say I find the Sunday club activities a bit irrelevant but the dds enjoy it.

Aloha, hello, I haven't had the chance to say how sorry I am about your dad.(You probably won't remember but I used to be Ionesmum.) Anyway, to answer your question, I feel the need b/c I do. I feel lost without a way of expressing my belief in God, and even when things are all over the place I still find it enriching. To me it's not just about living a good life - of course you don't need to believe in God for that - but about continually becoming aware of the divine that is in the people and the world around me.

Lorns - thank you for that tip, n.c football... is only 15 minutes away, will consider, its strange I have gone all goose pimply and want try new things, I just wish I wasn't so shy, suppose if I take the twins with me I can hide behind them (they are 3yo, not quite big enough) perhaps a mask!

Sleepysooz - goose pimples are good!! Perhaps you could go into the childrens' groups (looked on the website and it's either creche (0-3) or Sparks (3-5)so you're only in the main bit for the singy thing (first bit). I know at our church we say Hi to people as they come in and then invite them to come to a vistors area if they want to at the end. If you just walk out that's fine as well!!!

It's often the way that you're all set to go somewhere and something gets in the way (children not sleeping well the night before etc.) Don't be surprised!!

If I can be of any more help please let me know!

hi nearlythree - some of the things you describe about you growing up sounds abit like my family. I wouldnt call myself religious although I was brought up as a christian, I now follow my own faith instead of someone elses. I discovered crystals many years ago and have found their healing properties useful, I have trained in martial arts and yoga and have become a reiki master. I have taken on board all of these beliefs and somehow developed my own. It doesnt have a name and I dont ask anyone else to follow it. I just know it suits me fine and I'm happy with it!

Hi, shantistar, thanks for your message. I think I will end up with my own way in the end, right now I'm reading a lot and meditating. Faith and spirituality is a journey and this is just my next stage on it.

Lorns - thanks for all your kind words of help, if I go anywhere to church my twins stay with me, sorry just a thing I have about going to church and feeling Gods love with no children by my side to stare in amazement at, and thank god that they are part of my creation, I could never go anywhere by myself! I'm just a big softy, we do a lot of cuddling in church, especially during the hymms, it feels really lovely to have my children around me in church!

On the other hand, I don't get very often, now the twins are of a loud age, I can't hear whats going off and don't feel what I go to church for because I am too busy playing to keep them occupied in fear of disruption during prayers!

So really catch 22 situation, put them in the sunday school and concentrate on my time (shyly) or don't get to church often as children can be a bit loud. The term, 'cut my nose off to spite my face' comes to mind!

sleepy, can't you do a mix? Have some weeks where they stay and others where they go to Sunday club? Or find a church where Sunday club only lasts for part of the service.

I can't actually leave them until they are 4, so another year yet!

how are you anyway, nearlythree

sorry, hia!

Hi, sleepy. I'm okay - tired, and still having problems not relating to my beliefs, but with three dcs I can't let things get to me too much. How about you?

Hi sleepysoz. Understand what you mean. The childrens club would probably only be the the talky bit and everyone would all be together at the start.

No-one would expect you to keep the children quiet and also wouldn't frown upon you either keeping them with you the whole time or going into the creche/sparks with them!

They might out of kindness come over to you as your a visitor and see if you know about the childrens facilities!!!

Lots of !!!

Thanks I'm fine thank you, had quite a nice day, did karate with DS1 this morning for 1 1/2 hours then have taken the twins swimming (all by myself, 3yo's) whilst DH took DS1 to the local steam trains, they are renovating an old carriage!
AND NOW!
I've had enough, kids getting tired and getting on each others nerves, DH's taken them for a bath, I am soooo tired have retreated to bed! Guilty? er, er, no!

The only guilty feeling I have is that I havent been to church since christmas, we have had karate committments (gradings) so need this thread and the christian prayer thread to keep me on the right road!

Hope you have all had good weekends!

nearlythree - I have panic attacks with the children, (which can be frightening when I am on my own with the children) things do get to us, we are not robots, being mums we have to manage alot of things, so don't be too hard on yourself! you can always off load on mumsnet!

nearlythree :

Just wanted to say that I really relate to most of what you have talked about so far. Won't post lots now as I am very new to MN and don't want to barge in, but would really like to join in a bit if that's ok ?