Do you have an INDIGO CHILD?

[maltesers]

One of the top psychics in the country told me that my 6 yr old if special and an Indigo Child. Have bought a book bout them but still not read it. My son of 6 yrs has said some strange things like "I have just seen God back there with a circle of blue light all around him !" "I have seen him before in school assembly three times standing through the wall with a blue circle around him" He also mentioned a friend of his who makes him laugh, called Rufus who lived in our street, but says he is dead now. He says he died at 93 yrs in 1964 and he was killed. Whenever i ask him more he says "dont talk about it" but he did say the boy was called Rufus Riley.
Does my son see entities, spirits, or what ? ?

Yes, it could have done, we have no way of knowing either way.

As was said the last time this kind of thing blew up - calling someone else's beliefs rubbish is not healthy debate - a faith is very different to normal discussions and believing/not believing what you like is fine, but going out of your way to criticise is not. This kind of thing being a "ridiculous" belief apparantly means its fine to speak to the believers like they are sh*t and morons - but no-one says similar things to muslims and christians.

I'm sick of this f*ckin hurtful "discussion" that is always apparent acceptable.

Well, I have a medical condition which is, thankfully, controlled by tablets, and I'd love it if it could be cured just by someone placing their hands on me. This is what people often forget - it's not that sceptics are TRYING to make things more difficult to cure. Why would we?

I think scepticism is often confused with lack of openness to new ideas. Of course if, say, cancer could be cured by waving a crystal in front of your face rather than painful chemo and surgery then we'd all be a lot happier. But there is no evidence that it can.

Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. It comes down to the numbers. Do the tests with a large sample of the population, analyse the results and see what you get.

There should not be any such thing as "alternative" medicine. If it is demonstrated under scientific analysis that it works, it's medicine. If it fails, it's not.

"Yes, it could have done, we have no way of knowing either way."

But you could say that about ANYTHING. It could have been cured by the fact that you sat on a wooden chair. You have no way of knowing either way. It could have been that the room was dimly-lit. You have no way of knowing either way. It could have been because it was a Tuesday. You have no way of knowing either way. It could have been because you had just eaten cornflakes in a particular way. You have no way of knowing either way. It could have been because the moon was aligned with Venus and a cock had crowed three times just before a hen laid addled eggs. You have no way of knowing either way.

Because nothing was actually TESTED, and there was no control experiment, the whole "correlation" is totally meaningless.

Why should something only be classed as real because it works for x amount of people.

If one person's cancer is miraculously healed, how does that make it any less real than 100???

Some people cannot get pregnant - they have no idea why, they just can't, the sperm/egg/implantation combo doesn't work for them... but they are the minority group. Who's to say that healing doen't work in a similar (but reversed) way - only certain people are effected by it for reasons unknown?

UD, your view is that of a scientist, but there are a great many matters that cannot be fully explained away by science. Statistics and numbers will never tell the whole story and can often be quite misleading.

There are reports of cancer being 'cured' by spiritual healing and alternative therapies, but perhaps those people would have gone into remission spontaneously? However if the medics, with their purely scientific backgrounds, are baffled (and sometimes they are!), then I would say that this should be food for thought even for you...

Sometimes things are NOT black and white and they cannot be made so. If 'waving a crystal about' is not able to cure cancer, who is to say it won't make the sufferer's experience less painful (either physcially, emotionally or both) easier to bear? There is a strong belief among many that each of us have a time to be born and a time to die (careful with that one.. it may disturb your blatantly obvious (if not to you!) comfort zone a little! ) in which case, no treatment, traditional, complimentary or alternative, will change the fact that, eg.. that person will die of cancer.. or when.. but it may very well help them to deal with it, in any of the aforementioned way, and subsequently their loved ones deal better with the experience of losing them.

"If one person's cancer is miraculously healed, how does that make it any less real than 100???"

You misunderstand me - it's not any less real, but there is no convincing demonstrable evidence of how it happened. If you wave a crystal in front of 100 sufferers of a condition, 99 continue to be ill and one gets better the next day, where is the evidence that the crystal was responsible? A 1% success rate is not terribly convincing, and doesn't take into account the multitude of other factors which could have been responsible. I mean, it's a piece of ROCK for god's sake.

Same with "healing hands" - great, if it works, bring it on. Let's end the need for the NHS altogether. But it's never been proved to work. Even if yuo are Chris de Burgh. Funny, that.

StarOfBethlehem, what you describe perfectly there is the placebo effect. I'd not argue with you that such a thing exists. It's not an argument for alternative therapies.

For the last time, I do not have a "comfort zone". Why should it make me "comfortable" to believe that my own condition can only be held at bay by popping a pill every day?

Therapeutic Touch - this both the for and against - loads of site links

Spirit and energy work carries on regardless of lack of scientifc "fact" - meaning it has value to many individuals and cultures. Not so meaningless just not black and white correlations.

I can't do this any more today

Your comfort zone lies in your belief in extremes. "If laying on of hands works, great then lets put an end to the NHS!" or whatever you said to that effect. It's not that simple is it. Of COURSE medicine has it's place. Equally, so do other treatments and therapies. They are not mutually exclusive.. why should they be?

And equally, concepts such as Indigo Children sholud be be routinely dismissed because you don't like the prospect.. or some of the discriptions of the 'qualities' of an Indigo 'out there' on the net are more than ambiguous to say the least.. anyone can put anything on the net remember..

Believe what you believe. But go through life with the mindset that something may happen to change what you believe. Or you may miss something, big time.

• should NOT be routinely dismissed, should say

The last line of that "Therapeutic Touch" site is the most telling.

"As of 7/99 no one seems willing to demonstrate claims of TT under proper test conditions." Quelle blinking surprise.

7 years on, has anything changed?

If it has, I suggest they get themselves over to James Randi and win a million dollars. If they don't want it for themselves they can give it to charity.

Lack of funding more like it - not many people throw money at research of this because it is not economically viable - not that it is crackpot.

so I have a story to tell....
DH boss has been telling him about his wife who recently sufferred a stroke. The hospital told them that it looked bad and gave 6 months to live - scary. She was also scheduled for an operation to remove a cyst from her hip region.

So she rung up a faith healer. He detected she had worms or something similar living inside her (apparently not a very common variety) - which had created the stroke. He also detected the cyst.

He healed her, she went back to the hospital with his prognosis. The scaned her, cyst now gone. They have now found worms were living inside her but were dying.

The hospital has decided to use this faith healer now, as a last resort!

"go through life with the mindset that something may happen to change what you believe."

Oh, I do, absolutely. But I'm not about to change what I believe until I see evidence to do so. That's the difference. It's not carte blanche to believe every bit of woo-woo "spiritual" crystal-waving henna-dyed rubbish that I stumble over every day. Show me the evidence. Let me decide. Evidence, by the way, does not mean "this happened to me and because of it this happened, and so it means this."

"concepts such as Indigo Children should not be be routinely dismissed because you don't like the prospect..."

EH?? Liking or not liking doesn't come into it. I sadly believe in the existence of all sorts of things I don't especially like - spiders, vomit and Westlife, for example. Conversely, I disbelieve in the existence of lots of things I'd quite like to be true. It's purely evidence-based judgement. I can't believe it is so hard to explain this.

I try not to believe in westlife

I know I was stepping away, but wanted to add... my beliefs are from personal experiences (many more than just my example) - the things I have no experienced I am still unsure about (hypnotism, indigo children being two of them), but I don't NOT believe them iyswim

Unquiet Dad you are twisting my words.. but I am laughing at your Westlife reference. Me too. Obnoxious, self satisified talentless little shites sitting on stools going oooh ohhhhh to yet another cover
Oh how I digress..

Indigo Children:

Have strong self esteem, connection to source
Have an obvious sense of self
Refuse to follow orders or directions
Get bored rather easily with assigned tasks
Have strong empathy for others or NO empathy
Are often identified or suspected of having ADHD
Are frequent daydreamers

AKA hellish to teach children.

I have loads of students with a strong sense of self worth, get bored easily, have no empathy can't sit still and daydream all the time. Personally I attribute it to coming from a culture that gives them a special place in life because they are male. They refuse to follow orders because mainly their teachers are female. They get bored and daydream because they know that they will nver really have to look for a job, one will be provided.

Indigo children? Spoilt precious poppets of the 'Me' generation more like.

lots of rubbish everywhere just turn on the TV

I have been told I have an indigo child but tbh I don´t dwell on it whatsoever - not because I don´t believe it is possible, more that I an not interested in labels. I am more interested in how thoughts shapes life.

I gotta go out and enjoy the day

Very sensible Paps. (I do like you Paps.. you keep me grounded. I'm SleepyJess btw..)

Indigo Children are super evolved children sent to heal the world

they were invented by the American author Lee Carroll who first identified the Indigos in his 1999 book, The Indigo Children: the New Kids Have Arrived. The book sold 250,000 copies.

It is one of those books that strikes a chord with people and makes money for lots of people who promote the idea.

SJ!!!! you read my mind was just thinking as you posted I have no idea of Bethlehem is

glad to see you are still with us CruellaDeVille the alternative

Apologies, that can hapen when you take people's words out of context to respond to them.

I think the main problem in this kind of discussion is that people misunderstand - perhaps deliberately - what sceptics mean when they ask for "evidence". For instance, Richard Dawkins doesn't start "The God Delusion" by saying "all religion is crap" - he starts by saying the God hypothesis is a valid way of looking at the universe and it deserves to be treated with as much (or little) serious analysis as any other scientific theory and in exactly the same way. He proceeds to do so, and finds an overwhelming lack of evidence.

Evidence doesn't mean "this is what happened to my boss's wife" or "I know a bloke whose second cousin once removed had his lumbago cured by a faith healer."

This is partly because people also misunderstand - again, perhaps deliberately - the need for proven CORRELATION. If I have just been watching "Balamory" and I walk out of the house in front of a truck and somehow survive, that doesn't prove the miraculous healing effects of "Balamory". The driver could have been exceptionally alert, or it could have been the angle at which the truck hit me, or the wetness of the road, or the fact that he'd just had his brakes serviced. ... Probably a combination of all of the above. However, if this were to happen to over 50% of people under exactly the same conditions, I might sit up and take notice.

I'm ofen asked "what would it take to convince you?" How about if I were to break my leg in that accident, and be taken to hospital and have my leg verified as broken by two separate doctors, and be shown the X-Ray. And then, instead of receiving medical attention I had a faith-healer or crystal therapist or other practitioner of woo-woo come and wave their hands over me, or lay hands on me, or whatever else they wanted to do. (I'd have asked for conventional pain relief already, if that was OK. ) Then I'd want to see the same X-Ray again, verified by the same two doctors, showing that my leg was no longer broken. And I'd want to get up and walk.

Too much to ask?

I mean I'd want to see a new X-Ray from the same machine. of course. Duh.

I was not giving evidence just telling a story I heard about 2 weeks ago.

Police have worked with psychics now perhaps hospitals... NHS look out! You can get medical insurance that pays for you to see an acupunturist etc etc - hey they obviously accept it at least on a financial level

ciao for now!