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Original poster

How can I help religious DD?

292 replies

IsabellaofFrance · 04/09/2015 20:20

My DD is 6.

She has become increasingly more religious in the last year. She attends Rainbows and Sunday School (at her request) and she loves both.

I think she understands that beliefs are individual and that not everyone believes the things she does, and she is happy to share her own beliefs. She has started to get interested in Dinosaurs and Space, and became really upset when learning about the creation of the universe as it doesn't fit with what she believes.

DH is Atheist, I am Christian but only attend Church semi-regularly and I just don't know how to handle it. I can't answer the questions she has without upsetting her. She is bright and articulate so its not explaining it on a level that is the problem, its knowing what to say.

OP posts:
springydaffs · 14/09/2015 09:53

I would have to say you know little about religion - or, rather, God. As the two don't necessarily line up.

Believers also challenge assumptions, test views, look for flaws in theories; do doubt, do not blindly accept.

yy there are some believers - too many, to be fair - who think they've arrived. Same with believers in science it appears.

goblinhat · 14/09/2015 09:59

But you do blindly accept- you believe in the existence of an imaginary being with no shred of evidence.

"believers in science" - what an odd concept. You speak of science as if it is a religion.

springydaffs · 14/09/2015 10:30

You science afficionados do act as though it is a religion - in that you assume it's entirely sorted without conclusive evidence. It can never be conclusive; just as belief in God can be conclusive.

Perhaps we could all do with agreeing that what we believe to be true is not conclusive. That would be a start.

goblinhat · 14/09/2015 10:35

science afficionados

entirely sorted- this shows your ignorance of science.

BigDorrit · 14/09/2015 10:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

springydaffs · 14/09/2015 10:44

New point, please. If you want to progress; or do you want to repeatedly call me ignorant and bludgeon me with your beliefs.

goblinhat · 14/09/2015 10:47

with your beliefs.

Or lack of.

specialsubject · 14/09/2015 12:25

no scientist assumes we have a full understanding of why everything happens. The art-journo programmes will talk about things as if they are definite facts, but watch a real presenter (Cox, Al-Khalil etc) and they mention 'current understanding'.

science is also about scepticism; not believing in things but asking for evidence. Religion falls over in a heap if you do that.

sorry to derail rants with facts.

springydaffs · 14/09/2015 12:46

We are good at that, Dorrit. Not afraid of it, even. A vast community, stretching back, that does indeed question all aspects of religious belief.

Unlike 'scientists' (call it what you will) who seem to be very afraid of the idea of a God/deity (call it what you will) if some of the opinions on this thread is anything to go by.

BigDorrit · 14/09/2015 13:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

springydaffs · 14/09/2015 19:28

Err... errr... I don't? Well that's odd bcs here I am, with me, in my life, known intimately by self, and I do. I'm sorry to disappoint you Dorry but I'm the expert here on erm me.

But you believe that about me with zero evidence.

MNHQ
YetAnotherHelenMumsnet · 14/09/2015 20:03

Hi all,
We're getting a few reports about this thread. We're not going to make any deletions but we are going to ask that everyone posts with kindness and consideration for each other's particular sensitive spots. Peace out. Smile

BigDorrit · 14/09/2015 21:03

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

springydaffs · 14/09/2015 21:23

But I am an individual, a person behind a screen, and you are casting blatantly prejudiced assertions about me personally. This is offensive. I am/we are not an amorphous mass; I/ we are individuals about which you can't make blanket statements. Baseless in my case - and many like me.

featherandblack · 14/09/2015 21:35

I'm sorry to interrupt and haven't read the full thread so please ignore if this is way out.

Science and religion overlap in terms of both being about theories. The most plausible theory is the one with the greatest explanatory power. This is considered closest to truth. In science, bigger theories with greater explanatory power have sometimes been developed in response to paradox, when smaller theories with great explanatory power have initially seemed at odds with each other. Scientists and theologians can both be surprised because there is no doubt that our understanding and perspective is partial. But we can also feel 'sure' about our particular corner of truth, because it has the greatest explanatory power for us.

Neither science nor religion have answered every question conclusively. Science likes to ask more questions in pursuit of a unifying theory. Religion starts off with the broad outline of its unifying theory and focuses on the individual response to it. They are radically different approaches starting from different places, answering different questions and for different purposes. Only someone unacquainted with paradox, however, could be sure that the two theories are diametrically opposed, and that no overarching theory exists.

BigDorrit · 14/09/2015 22:29

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

springydaffs · 14/09/2015 22:58

God did what?? Genuinely don't know what you mean. But it looks like a caricature, of no depth; a sweeping generalisation, a noddy portrayal of someone who believes in a deity.

Of COURSE I question whether there is a deity. Me and many like me. Very much part of my relationship with God, the vagaries of that, the reality of it. Unlike you, reason and evidence is not my top priority - it is up there but not at the very top: other things are there at the top too. You may loathe that but it's not for you to loathe, it is my business. Which has zero effect on you personally. You may value reason and evidence as the very top priority for you and that's your choice, nothing to do with me. So please don't force your priorities onto me - it's not your place. I am not forcing my priorities onto you by stating I believe; nor sneering at you for valuing reason and evidence above all else. That's your choice.

BigDorrit · 15/09/2015 00:03

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goblinhat · 15/09/2015 05:42

springy- but religious does influence all of us- whether we are atheist or adherant.

It is up to me to loathe religion when it is given undue power in our society.
I loathe the fact that the church has the power to force its mumbo jumbo down childrens throats.

AlanPacino · 15/09/2015 06:54

unlike you reason and evidence is not my top priority

I would bet my bank account that when it actually really matters reason and evidence is very much your top priority. Can you think of one single example of where you ignored reason and evidence in a situation where there was the potential for real harm.

featherandblack · 15/09/2015 08:14

Stop bullying springy, all of you! She's made it clear that she's fine with you having your own opinions, all she's asking for is to be allowed to have her own. If she chooses to put her faith in Christianity, that is entirely her right and her choice. Your loathing of religion goblinhat does not allow you to criticise someone who doesn't the feel the same way.

If you don't like the place of religion in our society, that's a political matter and something to bring up as a voter or in the context of respectful debate. If you think it's quite alright to criticise a private believer's faith when they are obviously distressed and defensive, I find it very difficult to believe that you really committed to each individual having the right to choose what they believe, or don't believe, in.

goblinhat · 15/09/2015 08:28

featherandblack- as long as the church continues to hold such power and indoctrinate my children I have a right to speak out.

Shall we put up and shut up?

featherandblack · 15/09/2015 08:28

I think what springy may be saying (sorry springy) is that there are limitations to what evidence-based data has the power to explain - the evidence-based data at our disposal at the moment, anyway. Since faith in a religion does not preclude belief in scientific evidence, the two approaches can complement each other. They are certainly not mutually exclusive.

Secular and religious scholars agree that there is evidence outside the Bible that Jesus existed and was crucified. In particular, a Roman historian called Tactitus records it. As he didn't think much of Jews or Christians and said so in other parts of his writing, it's unlikely that his work was subjected to later Christian editing - as may be the case to some extent with another scholar who mentions Jesus twice.

featherandblack · 15/09/2015 08:30

goblinhat Of course you have a right to speak out - but that doesn't give you the right to criticise someone else's choice in a personal way. The right of the individual to believe or not believe is exactly what you should be championing. So don't be a martyr, complain to the right people and in the right way. Otherwise you are simply persecuting people, which is exactly what you don't want to happen to you.

goblinhat · 15/09/2015 08:34

featherandblack- I have made no personal attacks, nor persecuted anyone.