Please help. Church Dilemma

[Jo4040]

Please can I have some advice

We are a young family would like to begin to attend our local parish Church so that my DC cab begin to learn about our chosen religion.

However at this church there is a man who is a convicted pediophile and have been in and has been in prison for crimes against young boys. I know this is true because he groomed a close relative in my family.

This man is a dedicated Christian but due to the horrible crime he has commited my partner will not allow my DC to attend this church whilst he is there.

Nobody at this church knows about his past and he is treated with respect and this sickens me and my partner. I can't talk to the churches clergy as at this present time the priest is off sick with stress and to put this problem onto him would not be good just now (the vicar kniws of this man's previous conviction)

I attended this church as a small girl until my teens until I moved out of the area and I want my DS to recieve the same upbringing and memories of this church that I did.

I really dont know what to do about this,please advice

If this man was told not to come back to the church I firmly believe this man would end his life. The church is he life and he does so much for the church. He self harms (I know all this because my mother still attneds this church, she only gives him the time of day because noone at the church knows what he has done and she doesn't want to cause trouble)

There is absolutely no way that I can attend this church whilst this man is going. My OH has firmly said that he will not allow our children I to an environment where there is a convicted pediophile. We have asked the member of my family who this man groomed exactly what this man did, and his response was 'I'm not saying, its very disturbing, but he did tell us that one of this man's victims hung himself.

I want to start attending this church so much and we as a family could offer so much to the parish

He says that he knows in other churches there could and probably will be paedophiles. However, he KNOWS at this church there is. He can identify the pediophile. He feels that if he allowed his children to go to that church he wouldn't be protecting them properly.

I have told him that this man would go no where near our children but he said that I don't understand and men see this kind of thing differnetly.

I don't blame you for not wanting your chiildren to go to this church. Nevertheless if this man has served his prison sentence I don't think he can be banned from attending church services. I should think he won't be allowed to work with children in any voluntary organisation. If you can't accept this man goes to the church then you have no alternative than to find another church.

We have a convicted pedophile in our church. He is currently in prison, but when he was on remand, he came to church. He was very careful to stay away from children, eg by sitting in the box pews in the gallery.

I didn't know a lot about his case until the press got to it, but our clergy and safeguarding officers were well aware, as was the archdeacon.

Take your concerns to the safeguarding officers, wardens, or vicar, and they should be able to tell you what protections they have in place.

You have a choice. Attend the church knowing this man will be in the congregation or find a new church.

I would contact the vicar, while yes there will be safeguarding in place etc what you are probably dealing with is you and your husbands emotional well being.
I would ask the Vicar if he would consider mediating with the person in question about not attending the same services (most churches have several) so you are much less likely to run into him.

Thankyou all for your advice. I will speak with my partner tonight and see what he says.

Sadly by sheer statistics, any well attended church probably has a sex offender or paedophile in the congregation.

Nope. Just spoken to my OH and he has just said
' I never put my foot down. This time I'm standing by what I said. No children of mine are attending a church where there is a convicted pediophile. If I let my children go I am not doing my job as a father. If I didn't know there was one then I couldn't help putting my children in this senario'

It really doesn't help matters that when my OH was fifteen (we have been together a lonnnng time) this man in question squeezed his bum whilst following him up some stairs. Nobody knewt the time of the man's crimes it was a couple of years down the line that it all came to light).

Looks like I will have to find a new church. I'm so sad, I have lovely memories here and we really could have done so much for this church as a family. It's in desperate need for a new Sunday school teacher and I would have fitted the bill perfectly.

Thanks again for all your advice

So find a new church. I'm surprised that your OH wants to attend though when he doesn't appear to believe in the teachings of Jesus.

And I don't believe in God at all by the way but I know what the bible says. Good luck with finding a new place of worship that you all feel happy with.

My OH doesn't really know what he believes in, he just wants out children surrounded by decent people that our children can look up to and respect, that's why he wants to come along to church. Be wants our children to grow up with morals and he thinks that church is the place for this. He also wants our children to become form interests and he thinks sunday school/cubs etx would be ideal and he wants DS to be as much involved positively in the community as possible.

Hes just on the phone now to another church asking about service times/Sunday school etc...

If your DH has memories of being abused by this same man (a vital piece of information which you didn't tell us before or did you ), then of course one can understand why he feels so strongly about his children going there, and i would wonder why your nice memories of this church would trump that!
Of course you should find a new church, but you can't run the man out of this one.

Agree with Nat. If your DP can't find it in his heart to forgive despite what his faith tells him then that is his own decision - he can't expect others not to forgive and give this man a chance.

And excellent point about why YOU would still want to go if you know exactly what your OH experienced with this man.

I'm increasingly thinking that this Church is more of a social or status thing for you in this community than to do with real faith and wanting to worship.

I've heard church described as a hospital for sinners. If we were all in perfect spiritual health we wouldn't need it.
This man's sins are serious and known by others. But no one, but God, knows his heart. He may be further along the road to forgiveness that others in the congregation with less serious sins.
Your choice is simple, you go to this church and suck it up, don't have anything to do with this man and keep your children safe with you at all time.
Or you go to a different church.
I don't think there is anything to be gained by outing him.

Get your oh to talk to the safeguarding officer.

Just find a different church. They're not exactly in short supply

thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts gives some very good advice. I expect the vicar has referred it on already. If he hasn't he would be failing in his safeguarding duties. If it has been referred he will have had restrictions placed.

So unfortunately you either have to accept that he is able to worship there or find another Church

Jo4040 is the problem for your OH that he wants your DCs to be fully involved in the church activities sometimes without you being with them and feels that this man will be a risk to your DCs?

I can understand that especially given your OH's experience. Unless you can be certain that proper controls are in place to ensure that your DCs will be safeguarded then IMO there is a risk.

The problem is that if the safeguards arent there to protect against a known risk (ie convicted pedophile) then they wont be there for the lest concrete risks.

OP if you really want to attend this church and you want your children to come with you, you should speak to the church leadership about their safeguarding procedures, and what procedures they have for caring for known paedophiles (which if he's been there a long time, they should definitely have in place, it should be like a contract he agrees to, to restrict his access, ban him from all activities with children etc). If he has become a Christian and is actively reinstating himself, I would expect him to have embraced this sort of thing wholeheartedly. Every church should have some, and more and more churches have educated themselves to the issue of abuse and have elaborate procedures in place to restrict access to children specifically because of this. They know that because Christians have a tendency to be trusting and naive about such things and believe in giving people second chances, they can look particularly attractive to abusers, and abusers are experts at appearing safe and normal.

Unless your OH (and yourself) can be convinced that the procedures are strong, that only CRB-checked (or whatever it's called these days) volunteers have access to children, and that this man is under strict directives not to have any contact with children and is being kept accountable regularly, then I would be reluctant to let my children attend this church. But to be honest, if your OH has been abused by this man, you can't expect him to accept even that tbh. Forgiveness doesn't mean you have to be reminded of the past, especially such a horrid one, every single week.

Could this be a case of "better the devil you know"?

There are no guarantees that another fellowship will be free of paedophiles. At least with this one, you know.

There is no reason that this man should ever encounter your children. In a service, you keep them under close supervision.

In the CofE, safeguarding protocol is very strict, if my diocese is anything to go by. Anyone working with children has to have a DBS check and personal references (eg from the vicar). In addition, no adult should be alone with a child or group. There should always be a male and female leader. No youth leader should meet a young person on their own (our policy is to meet in a local coffee shop with the knowledge of the vicar).

My question is what exactly are you worried about?

I think while forgiveness for the man is important, more important (in the short time) is this man taking responsibility for the way his presence feels, even if he has been forgiven by God (and some of those around him) he must realise that his very presence in a place where people have been directly affected by his behaviour and crimes will be painful to them.
If he cannot accept and take the impetus to remove himself as much as possible (or even take himself to a different place of worship) then IMO I would question his rehabilitation.

better the devil you know

This a good point. You can never be sure of who anyone is even with a DBS check.

At least you know this man so can avoid him

Forgiveness is not the same as wanting to fraternise with the person who hurt you. Imagine having to see the person who sexually abused you as a child every Sunday. Singing hymns together, listening to sermons in the same room, sipping tea afterwards I'd have to really restrain myself from not splashing hot tea in his face, knowing he recognises you and now observing your children.

Wether he is rehabilitated or not only he knows, no way would I or any of my offspring be going back to that church, It would have to be a new church.

Is there only one service at this church? One of my uncles is a paediophile. He abused myself, a cousin,a schoolfriend and many of his pupils. He attends a church now post prison and they are well aware of his past. He goes to an evening service where there are few young children present. I personally think it is a great example of forgiveness and Christianity in action when someone who has done such vile things can be loved and accepted and helped to cope with life post prison. I agree with those who say it is a far safer situation if you already know where the danger lies. I would echo the advice to speak to the safeguarding link person and ask how they are managing the risks and explain the situation. It may be that he could rightly be asked to attend a different service to the one that might have previous 'victims' attending.

At last! A voice of reason!

Barmy posts on this thread. Paedophilia is known to be incurable, or at least extremely resistant to any cure. He wouldn't be in a service where young boys are present - or at least should be watched like a hawk, never alone with a potential victim. That's just common sense and, if he has faced his nature he will gladly go along with that. It is not gossip but entirely appropriate that the church knows his full history and safeguarding procedures are rigidly observed.

Forgiveness is an entirely separate issue. Of course he is forgiven, just shouldn't be unleashed on potential victims. Two different things.

Most churches have lots of services. If he went to my church he would be welcome at the 8am service or evensong. There is no reason a convicted paedophile has to attend the family service. If the man is seriously repentant of his sins then he would avoid the family service through choice.

I don't think that either the Op or her Dh hare unreasonable. Forgiveness does not mean putting children at unnecessary risk. I suggest the op talks to the safeguarding officer of the church. If her concerns are not taken seriously then contact the bishop who will put you in contact with the child protection officer for the diocese.