Someone explain "We're all born in sin"

[Twiglett]

based on looking in your children's eyes explain to me how we're born in sin please

nope
how can they be?!

It's all as clear as mud on wiki...

If none of us did "the orginal sin" then there'd be no "born in sin"..and the human race would die out pretty bleedin' quickly wouldn't it?

It's a load of arse thing that organised religion says to get you giving to their mahoosive church roof funds every Sunday and to behave the rest of the week so that you'll be absolved from sin and go to heaven everlasting.

Or something less offensive, no doubt.

if your not religeous then why does it matter?

very easy to take piss.

oh twig are you atill hung up on htis

Seven Deadly Sins:

Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity.

Envy is the desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation.

Gluttony is an inordinate desire to consume more than that which one requires.

Lust is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body.

Anger is manifested in the individual who spurns love and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath.

Greed is the desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. It is also called Avarice or Covetousness.

Sloth is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work.

Of course babies are innocent.

But isn't it about human beings being innately fallible, and reminding us not to be complacent - i.e guarding against our tempations to do wrong?

Twig, it doesn't mean babies are intrinsically evil.

I guess it's a way of explaining that all human beings have a tendency to behave in ways that fall short of how we could be. A way of explaining that very natural human drive to want things, stuff, our own way even if that conflicts with other people's needs.

I think I can get my head round that as I hear the sound of my children screeching at each other over who has the biggest bit of biscuit...

Well I for one am glad

Imagine how dull life would be without some good sinning

I quite like the Jewish bit on that Wiki piece .. that we're all born in blessing "To Jews, the idea of "original sin" is simply odd and seemingly negative, but it is key teaching among Christians. In line with the Hebrew Tradition, contemporary Christian theologian Matthew Fox's doctrine of "original blessing" is sometimes used in contrast to original sin so as to recall, on the other hand, the many blessings of Creation with which God blesses the human race"

The 'original blessing' principle is, ime, a better way to get good behaviour out of people - certainly the cornerstone of the lots of modern parenting advice!

my highly intelligent and wonderful vicar explains sin as meaning fallibility, frailty. nothing to do with babies not being innocent, just with them being human, as we are.

I think that's a religious phrase as I couldn't actually find it in the bible. Anyway the fact is when God created Adam he was perfect i.e. without sin, he was one with God, He sinned, didn't trust God's word and so now we have the sin nature, unless you are born again. Sin isn't a list of wrong things, all sin is, is basically not trusting in God,doing it your own way, instead of Gods way. He loves us, wants the best for us.

I work in a school and I see the effects of what might be termed 'original sin' every day...such as the teenage girl who told me she hates her name because her dad chose it for her and she hates anything that reminds her of her dad. Or the kids who get into fights and make obscenely racist comments (often both at the same time) because that's what they have lived with all their lives. Or kids who end up leaving school with no GCSEs because their parents never bother to go get them to do their homework.

IMO, 'original sin' is about inheriting the guilt and shortcomings of previous generations and having to live with the consequences of the actions of those who have gone before us. It's not to do with being born 'bad' (altho toddlers can be blimmin' selfish sometimes). It is to do with all those threads on MN that say 'what would you do as a parent that is different to how your parents raised you?' - because we all know that our parents were not perfect and despite our best efforts we aren't either.

A scary stitistic I read said that children's views of 'normailty' are set by the age of 10 - i.e. what they have lived with up to then will lay the foundation for what they consider normal behaviour (hence the secondary age boy who raped his teacher - the deprivation and sexual weirdness he'd grown up witnessing laid the foundation for that rape). When in the Old Testament it says rather scarily that the sins of the fathers will be visited upon the children I'm sure that this is what it means.

Does that make sense? It is just my interpretation and I guess it makes me think as a christian and a mum that I need to do my best with my children not to load them up with too much baggage. On a brighter note the Bible also talks about blessings being handed down the family line in just the same way. So it's not all doom and gloom and it's not to do with trying to control people's behaviour but to do with recognising the effects of sin not only on us persoanly but on our children too.

Statistic I mean!

I guess, as humans, even as children .. it is basically easier to commit a sin (eg, tell a lie than stick to the truth) if we can get away with it. So, in that very basic sense, we are all born sinners ...??

I just want to clarify - I'm not saying that every child who 'goes bad' is the parent's fault. Of course not. We are all responsible for our own actions. But of course our childhood and upbringing has a huge impact on who we are, probably much more than we realise consciously.

But thankfully we don't have to be imprisoned by the past and I know lots of people who have come through dreadfully lacking childhoods, ranging from a friend from a very wealthy family who was sent to boarding school aged 7 and felt so desolate and alone, to a friend whose family were penniless. I don't want to damn any particular type of family or parent because we are all fallible regardless of money or nationality or personality or anything. Sin (or 'falling short') runs through our bloodline whoever we are, and we are all part of it and we are affected by it.

It's a key belief among some Christians, not all, and it's not a belief that I have. I have to admit to being shocked when I found out that dd1's old pre-school teacher believed in it.

I believe that we are all made in God's image and that we are worthy of being loved. I also believe that sin is estrangement from God. Where there is love, there is God, even if we do not know it.

the Catholic version

N3 I agree totally - we are created in the image of God and each of us is loved and known by him.

However I don't see how believing that means you can't also believe that each one of our lives is touched by the sins and guilt of others (that's the essence of the notion of original sin). Surely the fact that we all are despite how 'good' we might be says that it's not a reflection on any one individual about on the human race as a whole.

I was thinking about this last night and about how the notion of original sin runs through literature, inc. what you might call 'secular' or non-christian literature...

Famous quotes like "ask not for whom the bell tolls", and "no man is an island" and that good old GCSE English favourite "An inspector calls" bend over backwards to make the point that we are all implicated in the crime / sin / shortcomings of others (and also in their goodness). Ben Elton's novel about drugs, 'High Scociety' makes the point that we all are affected by drug abuse whether we have consciously come into contact with it personally or not, because it pervades so much of the way this world runs.

Do you see what I mean? It's not a value judgement on any individual, it's a general observation about being a member of the human race.

Becky I liked the RC version. The cathechism does make things very clear IMO (not that I'm a catholic myself...)

Just realised - my brain isn't functioning yet - those quotes actually are part of the same piece! that'll teach me for trying to be a cleverclogs first thing in the morning!

I agree that of course we are affected (or infected) by the sin of others. But surely that is just sin - don't see why it has to be 'original sin'?

current pope got rid of the thing about babies recently. u know tht they had to be baptised otherwise would burn in the fires of hell for all eternity...

its all a load of tosh if they can just willy nilly change the rules wheneva they want!