How do you explain your faith?

[TooBusyByHalf]

If you believe in God how do you explain to non-believing friends and family why you believe? And from there, how you got to following your particular religion?

I am finding it very hard with new and fragile faith to articulate to my atheist DP why I'm even doing this. And I'm not getting very far with just saying it feels like something I need to do etc.

How would you explain your faith?

consequences

Ah, that'll be

I just meant generally, head. Because we rarely have access to all the facts we have to make decisions in faith or if you prefer make assumptions. Otherwise we could never actively plan for the future or make any promises.

I just meant generally, head. Because we rarely have access to all the facts we have to make decisions in faith or if you prefer make assumptions. Otherwise we could never actively plan for the future or make any promises.

There are also things that I don't have reason to think is true because of lack of evidence and so on. Think of things that some people believe in whole heartedly that you don't think is true even though you don't have proof. It's about probability, understanding of the world and probability isn't it. If you are saying we need proof that things do not exist before we behave as such I can only assume you are sacrificing to the Greek gods as a matter of routine. If not why?

You said this, head,

It's not about what is pleasant it is about not liking the idea of thinking things that are not true.

So you were asserting what I believed in is 'not true'. I was questioning this assertion, that is can you prove it?

I have never hidden the fact that my Christian Faith involves belief and, well, faith - which involves believing things which cannot be proved. I am saying life does, generally, at least to some degree, involves believing things (at least for a finite amount of time) which are not proven in order to make decisions because we never have access to all the facts. So the necessity of, at least some kind of, belief should really be universally accepted IMO.

And if people believe in the Greek gods, they exist as a belief, as part of the people that believe them. They exist collectively as a cultural belief within a culture that believes in them. Their physical manifestation would be through their physiological affect in the people that believed in them.

They are just not part of me because I am Christian.

can you prove it

head I asked whether you could prove it because you made the assertion my belief was not true. It tends to be the one making an assertion who is asked to prove it.

I have spoken about my Christian Faith and beliefs, that is all. I am open with regards what I am speaking about concerns faith and belief.

I am not making any definitive claims. You believe God 'A' exists and as such should provide evidence. I have seen none so suspend belief in God 'A' as well as God 'B' and so on. Do you have 'stand alone' evidence that Allah is not real? No. You reject it because of a contradictory and equally groundless belief.

I do not claim there are no gods. I am unable to believe in any at the moment because of insufficient evidence. I am waiting to be convinced. That is my position and as such is not a claim based one.

It's not about what is pleasant it is about not liking the idea of thinking things that are not true.

I must have misunderstood what you meant when you wrote this, above, then head, I thought you were claiming my beliefs, what I thought, 'are not true'. What did you mean?

I believe anyone's beliefs in god(s), other than my own, are true for them. The god(s) exist as a belief for them and manifest physically, in them and amongst them, in the way the belief affects them.

faith - which involves believing things which cannot be proved.

Unfortunately, it also involves believing in things which can be proved to be nonsense, like coming back from the dead, turning water into wine and walking on water. All justified because "the particular deity I worship is special and magic."

Sorry to be harsh, but religious faith is for children, and not very bright ones at that!

In my opinion.

Well, maybe say that he doesn't need to understand but just ask him to accept it is important to you.

Ahem, riiiiight, TTWK.

It does not really matter to me though. The law says I have been an adult, for many years now. I am educated also. People I meet don't usually think I'm entirely stupid but if they did dismiss all of what I am, due to their own preconceived ideas, I think that says more about them than myself.

People I meet don't usually think I'm entirely stupid

I'm sure you're not entirely stupid. It's perfectly possible to be stupid in just one area of your life, whilst being very intelligent in others.

Eg. Fluent in many languages but not able to do the most basic maths. Or CEO of a multinational company but not be able to learn to drive.

You're probably a highly functioning adult who just happens to have an imaginary friend. Don't beat yourself up about it!

are true for them

That's patently utter nonsense. Real things are real regardless of what people choose to believe. Does Yahweh actually exist? Is he actually somewhere? Does Allah actually exist regardless of what humans are doing/thinking? It's all very well if you make no claims about your God but theists generally think that their God is actually doing stuff and not just some ethereal construct of their psyche.

Capsium, you said faith involved believing things that cannot be proved. But I pointed out it also meant believing in things that have been proved to be nonsense. Like turning water into wine.

Can you tell me how you reconcile being an intelligent adult with believing in stuff that we can prove can't be done?

Genuinely interested in how you square this circle.

Honestly i dont bother anymore. Im better theologically and scientifically educated than most people and cant seem to their level. I know that wont be a popular answer.

to have an imaginary friend.

I don't whether I should be flattered that you would credit my own imagination for the Christian Faith however I cannot, with any degree of honesty, take credit for this!

That's patently utter nonsense. Real things are real regardless of what people choose to believe

Where have I said they are not? What I am talking about is differences in perceptions. I have talked about this (many times) before, on threads where you have participated, and given examples of cultural differences in perception. Weren't you reading?

Can you tell me how you reconcile being an intelligent adult with believing in stuff that we can prove can't be done?

How do you prove something 'can't be done'? I wonder how many times people have said something cannot be done, in history, and then it has...
IMO an important aspect of intelligence is recognising just how much is not known.

How do you prove something 'can't be done'? I wonder how many times people have said something cannot be done, in history, and then it has...
IMO an important aspect of intelligence is recognising just how much is not known.

Water cannot be turned into wine by command. Not now, not then, not in the future. They are 2 entirely different things on a molecular level. Water cannot become wine unless you follow precise and quite complex stages of adding certain things (grapes, sugar, whatever) in the right quantities and at the right times.

This can be proven, and has been proven, beyond any doubt. You cannot seriously fail to recognise that and in the same post talk about what constitutes intelligence. Sticking your head in the sand because the facts prove your beliefs are just plain wrong is not a sign of enhanced intelligence, it's rank stupidity.

That's the flaw with faith, and why on an intellectual level I just can't go there. Believing stuff without evidence is not good, but using faith to justify believing stuff that is directly contrary to the evidence is no more than lying dressed up as a virtue.

Well, TTWK, how would you expect somebody, who was the embodiment of God, to behave?

And if you need evidence, to be able to do anything, how can anyone be the first to do something?

how would you expect

But you make claims about his character. You don't believe in a nondescript God but one who is morally superior and all benevolent. I would expect a morally superior and benevolent God to behave along the same lines as I would expect a morally superior and benevolent human to. To act to prevent harm, to be fair and to be uphold equal rights as enshrined in the Human Rights Act.

Jesus fed the hungry, prevented a woman from being stoned, healed the sick, resurrected the dead, forgave wrongdoing, spoke out against oppression....

As have many humans. Even if we are happy to take the gospels as, erm, gospel, that doesn't excuse all the times he doesn't perform miracles to help people either before or since. A person who is capable of helping and doesn't isn't a bastion of moral goodness.

And if you need evidence, to be able to do anything, how can anyone be the first to do something?

Are you on glue?